Water Changes: 50% Daily vs 100% every 3 days?

[Kindredspirit]

overfeeding are ya, woman!!!

[candyl70]

LOL Marie.... I maybe overfeeding, but my fish are healthy and round!!!

[Kindredspirit]

Thatz cuz you got them from me and I got them from Dan and Cary...and we got them from Cliff!! How could we go wrong?? they are perdy c00l!

[Kenny's Discus]

Its kinda like having a gauge or a light in your car that measures engine temp. If you have a light, you never worry until the light comes on. If you have a gauge, you are always looking at it to make sure things are good (too much tests + too much info = too much worry sometimes). Either way, your car might over heat but you either enjoyed the drive with nice scenery or you missed it all because you were always looking down at the gauge. Once in a while, glance at your light and make sure its still good.

Excellent point/analogy Mike and I'd just like to add that if you are new to raising frys then it's totally understandable to try to explore/learn all the different methods(feeding schedule vs growth-rate, WC's, etc...). But once you find what works for you then IMO I don't think you need to say keep checking your water parameters like everyday. I agree with Mike that raising/breeding discus should be enjoyable and thus you should try to find a time schedule that you'll be comfortable with and also provide stable water condition for your fish. Good luck in raising those guys out Cage!

On average I have raised 80 - 100 frys in 55gs up to 3". Then I'll either need to split them up or sell them if I run outta space. I've done daily 50% WC's and 80% once every 2 days........and to my naked eyes the difference is minimal........they all still swim to the front of the tank looking for food after the WC's, regardless of which method I used. LOL

Take care,

Kenny
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=45944

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Cage..you gotta lot of time on your hands doncha? I would use some of that time on enjoyment instead of constant worrying and daily testing and tracking JMO. This is fun, I sit and watch them sometimes for .......well....lets just say I watch em alot. I dont once think, oh i have to check their nitrates, I just say...wow nice fish and very friendly....and always hungry. i would rather watch them for slight symptoms than spend numerous hours looking at viles and trying to match swatch colors. If your fish are thriving and healthy, dont change a bunch of things and dont start doing experiments. This is when inexperience leads to trouble for you and ME TOO. Sometimes very good is good enough. I'm not saying for moment that you should never try new things but small steps and less worry. Its kinda like having a gauge or a light in your car that measures engine temp. If you have a light, you never worry until the light comes on. If you have a gauge, you are always looking at it to make sure things are good (too much tests + too much info = too much worry sometimes). Either way, your car might over heat but you either enjoyed the drive with nice scenery or you missed it all because you were always looking down at the gauge. Once in a while, glance at your light and make sure its still good. Hope you understood my analogy. Sorry for hi jacking your thread.

Yes i do have alot of time on my hands as i work from home and hardly ever leave the house and hardly ever work for that matter ...... lol.

I enjoy my fish immensly and often as they are in my office along with this PC.

Im not worrying at all ............. just trying to get a routine down for WC's and feeding. This juvie tank has only been going for about a month and only been fully cycled for about 1.5 weeks so im not changing what has worked ........ im finding out what WILL work.

Just because im posting about something doesnt mean im worrying. Im posting to get more experienced discus keepers opinions and to learn what they do and why to help me figure out the best way for me to succeed. Im sure im not the only one thats tried to figure out the best way of doing theyre fish keeping routines and im sure i wont be the last either ..... lol.

If what i figure out helps others too thats even better. If there was a stickied post somewhere telling me the best water change routine, the best number of certain size discus to have in a 55 and the best amount of feedings & what to feed ......... then i would start there ....... but that isnt the case since what works for one doesnt always work for another and alot of the info on these type of posts are pretty vague.

If something was wrong with my fish and i was worried ........... i would be posting in the disease section.

I did 75% WC daily while the tank was still cycling and i certainly dont feel i need to continue doing that now its cycled and if i work it out so i can do 1 WC every 3 days ............. that gives me more time to enjoy the fish. More than likely removing fish from the tank will be what it takes to accomplish that but once again ... thats what im trying to figure out.

Once again im not worrying about this as im sure i'll get it worked out but if my nitrate levels rise to high .......... im not gonna sit back and enjoy watching the fish ................ when they are suffering in high nitrate levels.

Spend numerous hours looking at vials and color swatches?

Doing a daily nitrate test till i get my routine down is hardly numerous hours and is well worth the time spent to keep my fish happy and healthy. And any experiments i may do are for me to learn more about whats going on in my tanks and what will make it easier on me and better for my fish. Experimenting on water changes and nitrate levels is hardly dangerous to my fish. Not knowing the levels while watching them could be though.

As for your car analogy ........ lol ......... I understand what you are saying but if you dont take preventative measures with your car like checking the water level in your radiator from time to time and it runs dry ............ its gonna definately overheat and possibly blow up and then your stuck looking at the same scenery till the tow truck arrives. lol

I guess rising nitrate levels would be like a pinhole in your radiator then .............. if you dont check it from time to time and be confident the levels are ok ............ then you run into a problem.

I personally dont like waiting for a problem to happen ............ i look ahead and keep the problem from happening if i can. I cant afford to go buy a new car when it blows up and i cant afford to replace a tank full of discus either.

Its all good Mike and as i said ....... im not worrying ............ just working out the dtails of what will work best for me now and down the road as i get more and more tanks.

The more input of what works for everyone else the better.

And yes i do get a bit too passionate at times when im doing something and tend to go overboard but i'd rather be that way than sit back and wait till its too late and then try to figure out what went wrong and fill up the disease section with question after question..

I get disorganized real easy if i dont know exactly whats going on so i do my best to be as accurate and diligent as i can be.

[Cosmo]

IMO, 50% a day be better than 95% every three days on several levels. They've probably all been addressed above so I won't simply repeat..

you might try PMing Annonapersona with all the parameters and ask her to apply her mathematical formula to it and see what she comes up with

Jim

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Not sure why you guys think getting a handle on my nitrate levels is a bad thing as thats all im trying to do............. along with making LESS work for myself down the road.


If i shouldnt worry about nitrates .......... especially since 90% of the disease questions refer to keeping your nitrates below 10 in the replies .................. then ive learned nothing at all here and i might as well give away all my fish and tanks now.............. lol.

I'd much rather get a handle on things early than spend all my time in the disease section and in QT tanks!! Ya Think~

[CAGE-RATTLER]

IMO, 50% a day be better than 95% every three days on several levels. They've probably all been addressed above so I won't simply repeat..

you might try PMing Annonapersona with all the parameters and ask her to apply her mathematical formula to it and see what she comes up with

Jim

Please do give your opinion as i havent seen where 50% a day is the best way yet. As dave showed with his figures .......... it may be better than once every 3 days ............. but not better than once every 2 days.

And if i lighten my fish load then one 95% wc every 3 days still may keep my levels safe enough.

[Kenny's Discus]

Cage - I said that if you're new to raising frys I can totally understand the needs to gather as much info as possible. In fact when I first started out I did the exact same thing like what you're doing now. But what I'm saying is once you get the hang of it and if it works for you then you shouldn't have to monitor it like daily...and of course it's JMO(man these days when one speaks on forums you have to have a "disclaimer" like JMO, IMHO, JME, etc.....as things said on a screen can be taken so differently than what was intended LOL)

Take care,

Kenny

[Dave C]

There's nothing at all wrong with getting a test kit and figuring out your nitrate levels. They sure sound high & grow very fast. I've never seen nitrates register above 5ppm on my kit and stopped testing them a couple of years ago. If the fish look odd I'll do some tests, otherwise never.

The same goes for experimenting with other w/c schemes & the effects on your nitrates... makes perfect sense to me. Your water is your water, it won't necessarily react the way mine does.

But I believe the root of the issues you're facing and the reason you have to change so much water is because of overstocking & overfeeding. So if you're looking to lessen your workload that would be a good place to start.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Can't help you much on making sense of stocking levels when theres so many opinions on what works best there Cage... alls Ican tell you is I would consider that overstocked if that was my tank of fish...and I would either do lots of wc.. or split them out and see if the Nitrate issue is better......You are feeding alot...and some of it is very messy..that translates to bioload which translates to nitrates..

only 3 ways to remove the nitrate..

plants
wc
mechanical or biological filtration

-al

Al .......... can you elaborate on what foods are messier than others please?

Ive heard that some foods will give off more nitrates than others but arent sure which is worse. I would think the dry foods would be better but from other posts on the subject i think that analogy is wrong.

Knowing whats best will help me determine the best feeding routines for me.

And i didnt think 6 feedings a day was to much ??

But thats just another thing that seems to fluctuate alot with the different members.

One says PUMP the food at them as much as they'll eat and another says just the opposite ....... lol. I thought 6 was a good happy medium and they eat it up pretty quick so its not laying in the tank.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Cage - I said that if you're new to raising frys I can totally understand the needs to gather as much info as possible. In fact when I first started out I did the exact same thing like what you're doing now. But what I'm saying is once you get the hang of it and if it works for you then you shouldn't have to monitor it like daily...and of course it's JMO(man these days when one speaks on forums you have to have a "disclaimer" like JMO, IMHO, JME, etc.....as things said on a screen can be taken so differently than what was intended LOL)

Take care,

Kenny

Yeah i know that kenny and thats exactly what i did with my community tank. Once i figured out what worked for me i hardly ever check those parameters unless i suspect a problem by the way my fish act .............. which has been pefectly fine for several months with 1 WC a week.

My comments werent directed at you and i didnt mean anything bad with them ................. and i know exactly what you mean about a disclaimer ..... lol. And obviously from the other post i got blasted in ........... posting JMO doesnt work either ...... lol.

[Kenny's Discus]

My comments werent directed at you and i didnt mean anything bad with them ................. and i know exactly what you mean about a disclaimer ..... lol. And obviously from the other post i got blasted in ........... posting JMO doesnt work either ...... lol.

lol Cage I know that and no offense taken totally. If JMO doesn't work maybe try something like "just don't attack me if you don't agree"?

LOL

Take care friend.

Kenny

[CAGE-RATTLER]

There's nothing at all wrong with getting a test kit and figuring out your nitrate levels. They sure sound high & grow very fast. I've never seen nitrates register above 5ppm on my kit and stopped testing them a couple of years ago. If the fish look odd I'll do some tests, otherwise never.

The same goes for experimenting with other w/c schemes & the effects on your nitrates... makes perfect sense to me. Your water is your water, it won't necessarily react the way mine does.

But I believe the root of the issues you're facing and the reason you have to change so much water is because of overstocking & overfeeding. So if you're looking to lessen your workload that would be a good place to start.

More than likely ............ that will be what i'll have to do. Less feeding or remove some fish i guess but since this tank hasnt been established that long i want to give it alittle time.

Figuring out how much the levels rise each day is the 1st step and being able to have accurate reading is needed right now.

I did a 95% WC sunday night and right now im reading 20 with a test strip and MAYBE 40 with the master kit with drops. I'll be heading to the lfs later for another kit and hopefully get a better idea of how high its climbing and go from there.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

lol Cage I know that and no offense taken totally. If JMO doesn't work maybe try something like "just don't attack me if you don't agree"?

LOL

Take care friend.

Kenny

Actually i kinda did ................ i believe i said ...............

"And please dont take what i said personal as it was JUST MY OPINION"

I think people read what they want to read from the posts and then try to read between the lines and miss whats really being said sometimes and take things to personal anyway ........ lol.

Ive always had a hard time conveying what im really trying to say so im used to it ...... lol.

Story of my life ....... lol

Just ask my fiancee ....... lol.

She gets pissed sometimes even if i dont say anything ........lol ....... just by my expression on my face ......lol.