Water Changes: 50% Daily vs 100% every 3 days?

[ShinShin]

I understand what you are trying to point out. It is that I disagree. Don't confuse consistancy and purity and their effects on disucs (that is unless you want to confuse them as I don't want to tell you what to do).

Mat

[tdr1919]

Cage,
I had to run out and get myself a nitrate test as my Ocean Pharm. kit did not have it. And of course, I have to be like the rest of the "nuts" on this board and test everything under the sun!
Well low and behold! my tap water is at 10 ppm, and as far as reading the test kit, man, are those colors close to each other! to the best of my ability and my kids, I'm about midway between 10-20ppmm so I guess that's not too bad. I did prompt me to do a 40% water change, and it appears to be like my tap water at 10ppm.

10-20 ppm is OK....right?

Tom

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Well low and behold! my tap water is at 10 ppm, and as far as reading the test kit, man, are those colors close to each other!
Tom

Thats why i want to find a nitrate test kit easier to read!!

Im assuming you got the Aquarium Pharmasuticles (sp? lol) test kit too?

[pcsb23]

Personally I think 20ppm nitrate is the very top end of the scale. I am firmly of the belief that nitrate, whilst not exactly toxic, is a stressor and the stress it induces increases dramatically with each ppm. Even in my planted tank I try and keep the nitrates no higher than 10ppm.

Paul.

[Westie]

My head just exploded....

[Kindredspirit]

Well itz better than exploding bananas!! Why did your head explode? Tell me and I will tell you why I think it did~



Marie~

[Kindredspirit]

Personally I think 20ppm nitrate is the very top end of the scale. I am firmly of the belief that nitrate, whilst not exactly toxic, is a stressor and the stress it induces increases dramatically with each ppm. Even in my planted tank I try and keep the nitrates no higher than 10ppm.

Paul.

I agree Paul~ This is what I was always led to believe from the wise souls on this site! If my nitrAtes were ever 20ppm I would be trippin and doing wc and up in Paul's face on dime...Only cuz it has never been and I know it should be 10ppm~


Marie~

[brewmaster15]

Cage,
Keep it simple...wc ,split the fish populations, and alter the feeding is what I would do here as a starting point. I know I said it before but repeating it can't hurt.

Phil, aka Crimson Cross... You gotta stop be so Cryptic... Just spit it out when you have an idea or thoughts or experiences on something....The last thing people want to hear is ...

Heres a few clues to what I am thinking...I'll leave it to you to figure out the rest

. I know you have a lot of experience to share....but C'mon The cloak and dagger stuff has to go.. the site is based on information...so lets put all the cards on the table so everyone at all levels can learn....Please>>>>>>>>

-al

[crimson cross]

Al, I will try not to be so "cryptic" in my future posts. Take care everyone and sorry for the confusion...wish you all the best of wcs....

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Changing my feeding habits .............. I have already noticed a change.

I was feeding more flake and granules than anything before but i picked up some frozen Mysis shrimp, Krill & Daphnia to go along with my FBW & FBS.

The dapnia i dont care for to much and neither do my fish. Its in small cubes but breaks up extremely fine and just floats all around the tank and the fish dont seem to care for it much.

They are eating the krill & mysis tho.

So now they are getting mostly Hikari frozen foods and a good variety of it along with some small portions of tetra bits and sera blue color bits.

Im also feeding some straight ground beefheart every other day for 2 feedings before my WC.

I have abanded the thought of going for a 95% WC every 3rd day and now striving for every other day.

After a 95% WC my nitrates are at 10 ppm due to my tap being at 7 ppm.

After 24 hours it was at 20 ppm & after 48 hours it was close to 30 ppm so with my current setup ........ im building up aprox 10 ppm per day.

Under 20 is supposedly optimal and im sure given my parameters many will say i should do the 50% per day changes ............ but with my tap at 7 ppm ................. doing 95% every other day seems the way to go at this point.

If im at 20 ppm after 24 hours and do a 50% wc it wont just take the levels to 10 due to the tap conataining 7 ppm ........... it would be more like 13.5 ppm and then in 24 hours be up to 23.5 (figuring im gaining 10 per day). And that cycle would continue to increase every day by aprox 3.5 a day.

So doing 95% every other day im guarantteed to be at 10 ppm after the WC.

Doing 50% every day ........... i would never get back to 10 ppm. I would just be cutting the levels in half every day plus what my tap levels are adding.

I guess the daily WC's are fine for those that have tap water with 0 nitrates since your always just cutting the levels in half and starting at the same point every day .............. but if you have nitrates in your tap .......... the larger WC's less frequent seem to be the better option IMO ............ at least in theory .... lol.

I hope that made sense ...... lol.

But once again i will be reducing my fish load ..... especially since a few of them are now real close to 4 inches now. I guess im doing something right since some have grown almost 2 inches in a month in a half!! Hopefully reducing the food amount wont deter the amount of growth im seeing.

Once i reduce the load ........... im hoping that my nitrates will only climb to 20 over the 48 hour period.

Reducing the dry food amounts fed ...... especially the flake has definately helped alot and keeps my tank alot cleaner as well. The waste output has also decreased and i dont have to vac the bottom as often.

Im also now down to 5 feedings a day which is:

9 am: FBW + a pinch or 2 of flake

12 PM: FBS

3 PM: Frozen Krill + a lil Tetra bits

6 PM: FMS + a lil sera blue color bits

9 PM: FBW + a pinch of spirulina flake

on WC day 2 feeding of BH are substitued

[brewmaster15]

Phil,
Its not a big deal by any means...I just know that you have alot to share...and would really like to see members like you sharing it outright. Theres alot of ways to do something and the more info put out there, the better the chance someone will find what works best for them.


Thanks for understanding.

Cage, sounds good...keep trying things and you will find what works best for you!

-al

[Alight]

Sorry to dredge this up again, but just found it.

Cage, you might like to know that I use 55 g's to grow out my fry. The last batch I had, I had 30, 2.3 - 3 inch Discus in the tank before I sold off all but 8. With that many, I did 70 - 75% water changes every day. Nitrates got to about 15 ppm every day before the change. I feed heavily (6 - 8 times a day) blood worms, tetra bits, mysis shrimp, with all consumed with each feeding (no waste) and the fish don't look all that fat 20 minutes after feeding. Lights make no difference for nitrates. Pleco's make little or no difference in nitrates. Snails make no difference in nitrates.

What this means, is that with your stocking, if you want to grow out your fish maximally, you'll need to change more than 50% per day, more like 75% per day or more. If you want to change water less often, split the fish up in different tanks, or get a much larger tank. No other way to do it.

AP test kits vary all over the place in sensitivity. They tend to get more sensitive with time after they are opened.

To get an accurate reading of your nitrates, you need to make a calibration solution to compare your readings with. You'll need a known source of nitrates to do this. Stump remover can be used, as can sodium nitrate (available at some pharmacies without a prescription). You'll need a reasonable accurate balance, and you'll need to figure out molecular weights, etc., to know how much of the stuff your dissolving is nitrate.

I mix up a stock of 20 ppm nitrate, and dilute it to 10 and 5 ppm, and test all three to see what the readings actually look like as compared with the color card. This gets you in range. If you want an accurate reading of your tank nitrate, compare the tank nitrate tube with a calibration tube (e.g., 20ppm of calibration solution with your tank tube if you think its near 20ppm. If it's lighter, it's less, if it's darker its more, etc.

I've had AP test kits read 10 ppm as high as 20+ and as low as 5 ppm. And these readings change as the kit gets older. From what I've read, the other test kits available have similar problems and are no more accurate.

Denitrators aren't worth the price of the materials. They can reduce nitrates, but they won't reduce the other DOCs which are likely as, or more toxic than the nitrates we measure.

[Elite Aquaria]

I have an automatic water system on most of my smaller tanks. All tanks are drilled and there is a timer that turns on for about 10 minutes 3x per day. This give me over 100% water change daily. I never siphon these tanks. I have never had such large fish.

On my large tanks I siphon off about 75 - 90% daily. I use straight tap water through a carbon filter to remove Chlorine and Chloramines. That has been aged for about 24 hours.

I also have plants that I put the roots in the tank but the plant hangs on the outside of the tanks. I am not sure what they are called in english but my mother-in-law calls them malanga (spanish). I never check for nitrates but the tanks with these plants are always cleaner and the fish grow better.

[raglanroad]

Just ask my fiancee ....... lol.

She gets pissed sometimes even if i dont say anything ........lol ....... just by my expression on my face ......lol.

Hi Cage...recommend a good spanking every 2 days, vs. a small spank daily.
Dave