TAP WATER CONDITIONER CAN KILL FISH ???

[AmazonRainbows]

Yesterday I did a water change as usual but this time I make a big water change 90%. I use python system and proceed by emtpty the tank, put the water conditioner and put back water straight from the tap.

Until now I never have problem and my fish never react bad to this process. My tap water is good I think. Ony 1 ppm chlore, no amonia and nitrite + nitrate below 5 ppm. Also age very well with no change in PH. PH is always 7.4 until I start january 1.

Well this time something unusual happend. First when I fill up the tank I observe my fish very stressfull and some moving very slowly. Then a few minute after the tank is full one fish head down looking dead and another one start to trash in every glass. I quickly check the water: amonia and PH was OK so I put the two fish in the other tank but it was to late both fishs dies. I start empty the tank very quickly and replace with fresh water then I add Aqua Plus for chlore. I did a 25% change tree time in a row. By this time I have one fish who throw up all is food and died. I finnaly lost 5 fish out of 14. The 9 remaining where on the dead row dark standing in corner slowly breathing.

This morning everything where looking alright and no one would notice something happend except that fish was very nervous like if they where on a neuro-toxin. They still eat, fight to make ther place and swim up/down happily. They event keep ther apetite but just nervou to move in front of the tank.

I have to do another water change in my QT tank. I think that may be I have this probleme because I put to much dechorinator at one time. So I etmpy the tank about 80% and start filling with new tap water without adding anything. The fish was happy enjoying the water flow. Once the tank is full I double check dose and put dechorinator again. Same thing as yesterday happend. Fish turn dark and was going to dead row. I quickly do a water change again (2x 50% in a row) and use Aqua Plus as water conditioner. 4 hours after fish was OK again and swimming happily again.

So everything point to my water conditioner that I use many time exactly the same way without any problem before. I observe that when I put the dechlorinator my fish fins are comming white like a small frozen ice and I guess that also did the same thing on the gills.

Here is my question:
Did you ever ear about water conditioner turning to a toxin or something like that?
What are the usual symptom of overdose with water conditioner?

To dose I carefully always use the same dispenser and I clean it right after and never use it to something else.

Comment are welcome

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Glad to hear you didnt lose anymore fish today.

I spoke to you yesterday right after that happened and i appreciate the warning you sent me in a PM since we were both treating with the Prazi-Pro.

In your PM .... you said the conditioner you used was the aquarium pharmaceuticals brand ............. but in this post you said you used Aqua Plus?

Did you use a different brand today when the discus freaked out again??

[Ardan]

Aqua plus does have an herbal extract in it.
Maybe it was expired?
It is similar to stress coat, which I have been told can cause problems with the gills , especially if you used too much?

just thoughts

I am very sorry you lost some of your fish!

Ardan

[AmazonRainbows]

I use Aquarium Pharmaticeuticals - Ultra strength TAP WATER CONDITIONER - because it treat chlore and heavy metal only. NO other product with addition like stress coat or Aqua Plus because I ear that the last two tend to put a small coat on fish gills making it hard to breath for fish if you dose to much.

When things when wrong I have the bright idea not to use the same water conditioner and I guess this is what save half of my tank. On the urgence of the moment I didn't known if it was comming from the tap water, PRaziPro or the conditioner because just after filling the tank and befor I notice the fish was on dead row I redose with prazi. But the day after I did another water change in my other QT tank and I do no put MED to see what happend. Same thing happend again. Since then I use Aqua Plus and I feel lucky I had two water conditioner in hand right at this moment.

What is very strange is at very first just before it start to go wrong I do the same thing in my QT tank and everything goes OK. So I guest something corrupt my water conditioner or I just can't understand what's going on.

Cage I was in a hurry and I send you a quick warning just incase to protect you. Sorry if I make you rush a little bit.

Ardan I know you are sorry. You have work so hard helping me from the beggining I can't hide yesterday was a very bad day and I felt like throwing everything aways. My lost is a few hundreds... but more I lost my biggest fish and all my beautifull one are gone now. Curiously the small fish has been less affected then big one.

I will read a lot about R/O system and see how I can engeener my water change to prevent such a bad thing to happend again.

Now I need some rest to clear my mind and see where to go next.

Regards.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Cage I was in a hurry and I send you a quick warning just incase to protect you. Sorry if I make you rush a little bit.

Regards.

No need to apoligise to me.
I appreciated the warning in case it was the prazi-pro!!
I had just finished my WC and was about to redose my tank and figured i would check my post about it 1st to see if i got any replies.

Thats when i saw your message ................ It definately had me paranoid to redose the prazi-pro .............. so i waited a good while till the fish settled down after the WC before redosing.

Then i stayed up most of the night keeping an eye on them just to be sure everything was ok.

That AP Tap Water Conditioner looks like pretty strong stuff if its the same thing i pulled up on a google search. It said only 1 drop per gallon............ but then again ......... the prime i use is 1 cap for 50 gallons.

[AmazonRainbows]

Cage,

Yes it's quite strong. 4 Fl. treats 2,400 Gal. This is why I use the same dispenser. A precise 1 ml dispenser normaly use with medecine. It's a little bit more concentrate then Prime. But I never ear of fish dying from a dechlorinator overdose and on my question I don't have a lot of reply about this. Once I use one full 'prime' cap in a small flower pot with a clown in it. One eyes popup almost right away and the fish try to swim out of the glass. Die a few minutes later but it was a very high dose. On my 80 gal. I add 4 ml after a 95% WC and in my 10 Gal. I add 7 drop on a 80% WC out of 10Gal. I don't think it's enought to be consider as an overdose.

Today my fish as some part of ther fins burn. If it's something in water what can it be?

[jeep]

I don't care how stabile your tap water is, ding a 90% change straight from tap is risky business.

You may want to check this thread out... Good info!!

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=48597

[Cosmo]

Rainbow,

Sorry to hear about your experience, and especially your loss of fish I had a similar experience a year or two ago, so I know how stressful and frustrating it is to see your beautiful fish go through hell in front of your eyes like that.

I've never heard of an overdose of water conditioner before, but there's always the possibility. Have you contacted the manufacturer yet to see if they can explain what happened?

Like Jeep said, it's always risky using water straight from the tap, and the larger % you're changing, the riskier it becomes. Ardan's thread that Jeep linked to was excellent and clearly explains some of the many factors that effect what comes out of the tap and goes into the tank. And, is also, a very good primer on the benefits of aging water before adding it to your tank.

I've heard of too many similar horror stories to ever trust the city water supply myself.

Though near impossible to do in the heat of the moment, sometimes the best thing you can do is force yourself to not react without first thinking things through. Sometimes that doesn't change the outcome, sometimes it does..

My sincere condolences

Jim

[AmazonRainbows]

Jeep,
I have read this thread before and this is why I always do a check on amonia and chlorine right after a water change. Knowing this I have call my city to talk whit people who take care of my town water.

I also call the laboratory that analyse my city water everyday of the year to make a final year repport about my town water quality. Repport that I have been giving a free copy. Guess what? My city water is good enought that in a University in my town they have to do a study on salmon fish (also require amonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate 0) and require help from this laboratory to make sure water was 100% perfect so nothing interfer in the studdy. They only have to filter water with charcoal to remove everything including amonia. They use a UV sterilizer and talking whit those helpfull guy I even have been told witch range of UV light I sould use. I guest I was lucky and I fall right on the right guy to help me concerning my worry about city water for my fish and he was very helpfull and glad to do it.

ONLY AFTER THAT I MOVE ON WITH BIG WATER CHANGE STRAIGHT FORM THE TAP.

I'm 99% sure it was something related to the water conditioner not the tap water but I get the point and will not do Big water change or at least if I have to do I will do it in more then one step.

It may not be the water conditioner who turn bad and I may have contaminated the bottle. Because this product is very concentrated I use a plastic dispenser for med get in a Paraguard bottle. This dispenser is grade for 1 ml and my water conditioner treat 20Gal. with 1ml. I fel it was an appropriate dispenser to make good mesure. I notice a few day before the dispenser plastic as start to melt may be because the product I use was to strong for this kind of plastic. Then this happend. I did not search to much and just throw the water conditioner in thrash.

Since I have change my water conditionner I have no problem and this is a good point showing it was not comming from tap water. Also when it happend I quickly do another water change with another water conditioner and this save some off my fish.

The point is doing a water change is sometime a risky business specialy in some city but when something goes wrong it does not always point only to this. I move from gouramis to disucs and I discover that water need is very different. Like I told Ardan in a PM keeping discus is not hard as it seem. The hard part is in getting a good water quality in a daily base.

I'M currently reading the part on R/O system and will read on how folks are installing themself for water aging. I'm a electrical eng. and I'm also checking out to automate the hole process cause I found the water part taking to much of my time.

Right now I take a rest cause I will move very soon i a biger place. Then I will take care of the water part. Only after being thru all this I will invest again to get very nice Discus. Right now I feel like the water part cost a lot more then the Discus community!