DISCUS GARDE -WHAT A BUYER SHOULD EXPECT

[AmazonRainbows]

Waste of time.

[Rod]

AAgrade Young adult to breeder size specimens, as close as possible to type.

A grade Any size fish that has great potential to grow into an aa grade.

b grade the ones that exhibit minor errors in type but don't exhibit enough errors to be considered a cull. Pet shop grade.

Rod

[AmazonRainbows]

Thanks Rod.

[Kindredspirit]

AAgrade Young adult to breeder size specimens, as close as possible to type.

A grade Any size fish that has great potential to grow into an aa grade.

b grade the ones that exhibit minor errors in type but don't exhibit enough errors to be considered a cull. Pet shop grade.

Rod

Really? Soooo......Rod ~ AA is better than A grade? Oh wait Yes....I see that ....sorry! But my next question is there really is no way to tell if a fish will grow from an A grade to an AA right?


I had a point but I totally forgot what I was leading to!



Marie ~

[Rod]

Well thats my take on the gradeing system Marie, personally i don't use grades like that. I can't see how a young fish could be graded as aa grade, because you can't see final color,pattern, shape etc etc. In a young fish an experienced breeder can tell, partly by look and experience ,which ones will growout the nicest especially from among there own stock. These are the ones i keep for myself, the ones i sell to my internet discus friends and the ones that the hobbiest buys if they came around to visit me. I'm not saying all of these will turn out to be show specimens, but they should all turn out to be pretty good with exceptional ones among them. The rest get traded through the wholesale industry where a lower price discus is wanted.

[Kindredspirit]

Thanks Rod ~ if you go and look at my post in the Photo Gallery under Candy's thread re Changing Color you can see the parents to our fish and then Dan's just posted some siblings ....

and I think that mine look pretty close to what the siblings will look like ~ but there is no real way to tell what a fish will look like ~ I guess ~




Marie ~

[DISCUS USA]

This is my take on that grading system from alot of buying experience..

B grade= not very desired by seasoned discus keeper,,but acceptable to newbies

A grade= acceptable discus quality for all

AA grade= better quality than average

AAA grade is just the importer or breeder way of saying holy cow this is a very high quality discus you better get them before they re gone..lol..

just my 2 cents..


Hector--nYc--

[discusdave]

This is my take on that grading system from alot of buying experience..

B grade= not very desired by seasoned discus keeper,,but acceptable to newbies

A grade= acceptable discus quality for all

AA grade= better quality than average

AAA grade is just the importer or breeder way of saying holy cow this is a very high quality discus you better get them before they re gone..lol..

just my 2 cents..

Hector--nYc--

I think Hector's post is a good rule of thumb for the buyer. I have much more experience as a buyer than as a seller, as I am new to importing and selling Discus, and make no claims to be a Discus Breeder.

I personally think that lower grade Discus are good for the newcomer to try for the first time. Who wants to spend a bunch of money on a Grand Champion Whatever only to have it die because of their own inexperience?

Where Dealers come in is to not sell culls or inferior fish to the unsuspecting newcomer while telling them they are high quality. That hurts everyone.

My sales philosophy is on my website. If I receive what I consider to be an inferior fish it stops with me and I deal with my supplier. No junk gets passed on to my customers.

[AADiscus]

We don't use a grading scale. We sell only the highest quality from each batch. We would not sell a fish to anyone we wouldn't want in our own tanks!!! Now that being said.....we also get first picks on the ones we want to keep for future breeders. lol I'm sure everyone has there own opinion on grading, etc. I think the responses you have got so far are good! I just think it's hard to set up a grading scale because I think everyone looks at a discus different. IMO We have learned alot and Dick's speech last year at the ACA taught us alot on what judges look for when they judge fish. Some things you would not really pay much attention to until it is pointed out to you. The pictures also in the University here with the Mod's rating them is great.

[AmazonRainbows]

The interesting thing here is that Grading system are made to set fixed reference as a comparaison point.

Base on the sponsor reply I believe that saying they have Discus Bad, Good, Very Good and Amazing will change absolutetly nothing. This is just not telling me more then a B, A & AA grade base on the reply I have until now.

Here is my question:

If I put a bunch of Disucs in a bucket and those fish are a strain you realy don't know about or where it is coming from. How do you do folks Grade the fish? Can you all be certain to end up with the same or close result?

Another interesting question is how can you verify with certitude that a A grade is not a B grade and a AA grade is not a A grade? Let's say a fish is A close to a AA. IF your Fish farm is selling the fish as a AA grade how can you be sure it's not a A grade close to AA but not a AA? How can you valuate your point to your seller without any doubt?

As I understand about how Discus grading system is done actualy (and base on the few reply I had) it is more a question of personnal appreciation from the Fish Farm then base on objective quality the fish should have. So a A grade fish could be grade as AA from another farm and so on...

Would you buy a care from a seller who is telling you the car is very good looking?

How can a buyer know if is expectation will be meet when buying a Discus if Grading is not set on a objective set of quality the fish should have?

My reflection may look strange but Discus Grade look more like a Mystery science then a well know and standard mesure to compare fish quality from a Fish Farm to another.

Here is a comparaison I would like to do:
Wine is very subtil to grade as it take a least 20 differents tastes and odor to synthetyse and it will also change over the time without the ability to know how it will turn out (I've been training myself a little as a wine tester). So IMO wine and Discus share a lot of commun thing.

But wine can be grade in a way that any good wine taster will be able to do without any mystery. So why can't it be the same with Discus?

I hope sponsor on the site does not feel I'm trying to put them in a corner. What i'm trying to do is more to lay down some base to help buyer and seller talk the same language so that both side know where they going when involve in a distant exchange.

This relation exist on both side. From the sponsor/distributor and the Fishfarm and from the buyer and the sponsor/distributor. So I think It wort the effort to start making this a little bit more clear.

[1977]

This entire subject is based on personal opinion. I wouldn't let a so called experts opinion on the quality of a discus influence me anymore than I would a wine or movie critic. Most of the time I find that I just disagree with their judgement. I've seen a lot of discus and have yet to see one I consider AAA grade anywhere, seen some nice ones but not perfect, do they really exist? In this hobby and with any purchase you really need to be careful and pick them yourself if possible because people will exagerate or even outright lie.

[AmazonRainbows]

This entire subject is based on personal opinion. I wouldn't let a so called experts opinion on the quality of a discus influence me anymore than I would a wine or movie critic. Most of the time I find that I just disagree with their judgement. I've seen a lot of discus and have yet to see one I consider AAA grade anywhere, seen some nice ones but not perfect, do they really exist? In this hobby and with any purchase you really need to be careful and pick them yourself if possible because people will exagerate or even outright lie.

1977,

I do agree with you about the so call expert opinion. (In the province I leave) I feel most of them are working more for ther pocket/boss then for the customer. Quebecor world is controlling almost all media sector (In the province I leave) and no body will ever put them down in a critisism because of fear to find a job in media. Also In today's world there is so much people that proclam therself "expert" without any formation or real professionnal formation it's a joke. I think the challenge for us regarding this is to found one in the group that have a close choice to ours own and stick to that.

Of course one point about my question is commercial Discus breeder are there to be in business. So it's normal they try to get the most out of ther sales and every body will do the same. The under meaning of my question is I think Discus trade/price are base on expectation more then on what you get. It's not base on my own experience as a buyer (because I have to many little to make my opinion) but more about the answer I received to my questions. If you do a base line like conformity point to grade the fish then you have to meet at least a base line. On the other side if you sale a Discus base on what it can become your are selling base on expeptation and as a customer you may pay for something you will never have.

This are all my tought that I think loud here so that you folks help me understand more about Discus business.

I do a lot of different thing for living. One of them is teaching. Has a teacher I whant to know how I'm doing so I do call by myself that some evaluation of my teaching work be made from the student. Some school are a shame a this point. They just wrote down stupid questions putting the teacher at the merci of all student expectation. But other school have a very well made questionnary made by specialist. By asking many question to the student they will drop the student that are puting you down just because they don't like you and they will also make the difference between the real work you have accomplish and the expectation the student have.

What I'm trying to see is where the Discus business is in this scheme. Right now I'm realy not at a place where I can tell the right from the wrong. I'm a newbie and I'm just learning. For me this is all the fun I get in all new hobby I do. Having an opinion already done would be a big mistake. It's just like when a studen give a quote to a teacher knowledge. Ok if the guy is a desaster it will show but how can someone who is learning can know if the master is right or not? They just can't or they would not need to take the course...

[Willie]

Have yet to see anyone offering B or C-grade discus on Aquabid or Ebay. I wonder where could all these fish have gone?

W

[Green Country Discus]

Amazon, I would agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But that being said, standards are set world wide with Discus shows, the winners would be the quality all others should strive for. Since you are new to Discus and want to learn what is quality, spend some time reading everything in the Discus University. The information is there to give you a keen eye for detail.

I would also agree that breeders classify and promote their Discus differently, some true and some not so true. I am with Willie on the Aqua Bid scenario LOL. Willie is one of the Judges in the University and uses a A,B,C type grading system. Check it out.

After studying the Discus University you will find that you will be grading most Discus that you see. It will take some time and practice to develop your eye to look for the important points. In every batch of 10 Discus you will have a top and bottom Discus and the rest fall in between. All 10 may be quality or all be dogs or a mix of the two. Discus are like fingerprints, they are all different.

If you are purchasing Discus and can't see than personally, ask for pics of the fish you are interested in and a pic of the parents if possible. Use your trained eye to be the informed buyer and do check out the buyer feedback on Simply sponsors. HTH

[ShinShin]

Discus grading is arbitrary at best. I've seen C grades, B grades, A grades, A+ to A++++ grades offered. What saddens me, though, is to see that some people still insist that there is a pet store grade discus. This tells me its about dollars and cents, and not improving the discus quality in our discus world.

Mat