Food For Thought..... Deformities

[kaceyo]

Tony,
I don't remember saying that other people shouldn't set their own standards or askng anyone to stand behind mine. Only that, yes you are qualified to draw the line "for yourself". It's the judging everyone who doesn't agree with you as being ethicaly challanged that I disagree with. And my "dog argument" had nothing to do with the idea that if we've been doing it for so long it must be OK. It was that these dogs live quality lives and that they have been accepted, their owners are not being judged moraly corrupt just for owning one.
So I return your own argument to you. Set your own standards, draw your own lines and don't judge others for setting theirs.

Kacey

[Beth]

Quite a bit of reading and some very strong opinions here

Still ....... it's not quite what I'm looking for........ let me show a few pics here. How many of these fish would you cull ? and why?

[Beth]

what about this one?

[Beth]

and......

[Beth]

ok........ how about this one??

[crimson cross]

They are all very ugly and deformed too. Send them my way so I can cull them personally..Yeah, get rid of their gene pool and lets keep our "round" fish....

[lhforbes12]

Kacey,
Please don't misunderstand my intent, or think that I am attacking you. I find that your posts show that you are intelligent and insightful, and I enjoy reading them.
I didn't mention your dogs analogy simply to remain brief. I agree with you about them, although I can't help but wonder why you chose to single out small breeds when it's actually the large breeds that have far more, and far more serious problems, than do the smaller breeds. But then we happen to "own" Maltese, so I am probably oversensitive in that regard. ("Own" is in quotes because if anyone "owns" anyone it's "The Boys" that own us. They let us stay around because we can open doors and they can't)
If you read my entire post you will see that I have nothing against the people who like the high finned, high bodied type discus. Beauty is definately in the eye of the beholder, and if that is what you like, by all means keep them. I only begin to have problems when "quality of life" becomes an issue. If the fish are capable of getting food, then I see no problem, even if they are incapable of breeding.
I personally feel that breeding for small eye size is also an abomination, made especially so because I see more and more posts about basically blind discus, and can't help wondering if breeding for small eyes isn't a major contributor to this problem, but I digress.

Larry

[lhforbes12]

Beth,
To me they are all culls, with the exception of the PB's, which I personally don't see anything wrong with. But I am definately biased in this regard and dislike PBs, or yellow, orange, uni-color, or white, and especially red/white discus, so I may not be looking at the PB's closely enough. Before the ten billion flames start, let me say, "just because *I* don't care for them is certainly no reason for others not to keep them."

Larry

[chompy]

I think pic 1 and 3 are culls... whenever I see these fish I always think of the elephant man.
I think we do far worse things creating things like bulldogs, and fancy goldfish. I personally think keeping wild caught discus(or africans) for anything other than breeding them is far worse.

[Beth]

If Hi Finned and Hi Bodied Discus are ok for breeding programs..... what makes the Bulldog any less worthy ?? I understand that in the wild more likely than not the higher bodied Discus would be eliminated.

Discus in the wild have some less than desirable shapes as well..... You'll see more oblong ( elongated ) wilds then you would perfectly round ones..... Yes? No?

I'd be willing to bet that almost every single Discus person on this board would much prefer a round wild over an oblong shaped wild........ why?? Because it's more aestheticly pleasing. Should all Discus be perfectly round??

Is it more ok to have an oblong (elongated) Discus than it is to have a more higher bodied Discus in a breeding program??

My Opinion and only mine...... which Tony doesn't like might I add more for me on my side of the fish room ........

I don't have a problem with most Hi finned or Hi bodied Discus, of the pictures I posted I'd be proud to have any of them in my tanks... Why ?? Because I find them very aestheticly pleasing....... as for this one
I really don't find it as appealing........ but hey..... that's where I drew my line....

Beth

[Beth]

Larry.........

To me they are all culls, with the exception of the PB's, which I personally don't see anything wrong with.

I guess that's where you drew your line........ But there's not much difference between that pb from the rest of those pics in my eyes.... That pidgeon is as high bodied as the rest......... I"d still have it.

Kenny ....
I hope you didn't mind me using this pic. He's a nice Discus

Beth

[terps]

The bulldog discus don't look good to me. I doubt there's a big market for them. They do look better than the culls in the link below:
http://www.angelfire.com/id/ttdiscuscenter/

[Greg Richardson]

Terps. Yep. Now that is just plain sick in my eyes.
And to think they actually want you to pay for them. LOL!
Those must be their Valentine Day fish they sell.

[Tony_S]

Kacey

Let me start by agreeing with this...

Kacey,
Please don't misunderstand my intent, or think that I am attacking you. I find that your posts show that you are intelligent and insightful, and I enjoy reading them.

Im not trying to insult you...belittle you...or anything of that nature.
But, yes...Ive made a judgement. Im a hardass and very opinionated....most on this forum know it....I know it....Beth knows it, and tells me about it on a daily basis....If you think less of me because Ive made a judgement...so be it.

I make judgements everyday....we all do. Its the difference in our own minds between right and wrong....I believe you are wrong....and so is my wife!!!!! LMFAO!!

So string me up....it wouldnt be the first time, it wont be the last!

Tony

[Ryan]

Wait for it.... wait for it.... I'm actually going to say it....

But................ Tony................

I actually agree with you. lol.

I think that these types of discus are starting to look more and more like blood parrots or jellybeans or whatever they call them now. Some of the pictures in the gallery show "bulldogs" or "standing eggs" that have flared gills, probably because they have shortened spines and it causes the face to be smashed in/compressed. That just doesn't seem like a good thing, IMO.

Ryan