Opinions on Diatom Filters

[poconogal]

The filter and tank has been running for about 8 weeks, I used some water from the old tank to fill the new one. I haven't added any new fish. I don't have a problem with algae, the water just looks a little cloudy to me.

Hi Lora, every tank that I have set up, over the last 15 years or so, has had that slightly white, cloudy look appear a few weeks after set up. Its normal, nothing to worry about, just a little bacterial bloom. In fact, in thinking about it, I had that occur about 6-8 weeks after setting up a 20 gal. community tank in February. It took about 1 to 1-1/2 weeks to clear up, on its own.

BTW, while some people would not be without the Diatom filter, I always have crystal clear water. I use a fine pore prefilter on my intake and a 100 micron filter pad in my filter, a HOB Aquaclear 500. So if its mostly for clarity of your water, not algae spore removal, etc., there are other alternatives to using the Diatom filter.

Connie the Blonde

[traco]

So if you want clarity of your water, a UV is the way to go? And us who have no canister filter, we are out of luck to use a UV?

[Dissident]

Dissident, you say you only clean your filter once every three months? I'm cleaning mine at least every two weeks. So, is all the "gunk" that builds up inside the filter necessary for good biological filtration? Also, what type of UV filter do you use?

That is too often for filter cleaning, espically for a canister filter. If it is getting really gunked up and water flow gets restricted a lot you may need to clean it more often. I only change the filter floss every 2 months on my 110gal planted discus tank. When you do clean the filter it should not be 'spotless', clean it in a bucket of aquarium water.

I like th turbo twist UV setups, the jebo and odyssea have been known to leak at times. The 3X model will be fine for algae and some bacteria control but if you want to kill diseases/parasites you will probably want the 6X (~$100).
I would keep it off the days you dose macro ferts (if you are adding macro ferts). It does not need to be ran 24/7 so I would keep it on a timer to run 6-12hrs/day.

So if you want clarity of your water, a UV is the way to go? And us who have no canister filter, we are out of luck to use a UV?

UV sterlizers use intense UV radiation to 'zap' nasties out of the water. The do not trap stuff in the water like traditional filters or diatom filters. Depending on what is in your water it may/may not help with the clarity. Diatom filters trap extremely small particles floating in the water, particles smaller than what your tradtional filters will catch and servs a slightly different purpose. A diatom will get some bacteria and algae spores but they are not designed to be ran as often.

[Cosmo]

Barb,

You can power a UV with any pump but you want a prefilter so as to not pass large objects into the UV chambper. A powerhead with a quickfilter attachment would work

Jim

[Cosmo]

Diatoms are unbeatable for filtering out fine particles, but they are a Pita. No matter how hard you try, you'll leak some powder into your tank (and that mixing valve they sell is crap). Noticable on a BB tank since it looks like it just snowed after you diatom the tank Do like their powerderd carbon for removing meds though.

Just for clarifying the water, the magnum with the micron filter does an acceptable job, and although it's a pita in it's own way, it's no where near the pita the diatoms are
Jim

[poconogal]

Diatoms are unbeatable for filtering out fine particles, but they are a Pita. No matter how hard you try, you'll leak some powder into your tank (and that mixing valve they sell is crap). Noticable on a BB tank since it looks like it just snowed after you diatom the tank Do like their powerderd carbon for removing meds though.

Just for clarifying the water, the magnum with the micron filter does an acceptable job, and although it's a pita in it's own way, it's no where near the pita the diatoms are
Jim

Jim, that's exactly why I hated my Vortex. That white powder, all over my tank! No matter what I did... grrrrrr. It was such a huge PITA! I have one of the original HOT Magnums from many years ago (about 13 or 14, I think) and it does an outstanding job of polishing the water. It filters down to 1 micron, with much, much less headache! I really don't use it anymore though, since I use a fine pore prefilter and a 100 micron pad in my AC500. BTW, I stomped on my Vortex and smashed it into pieces, which gave me great satisfaction, after months of trying to get SOME customer service from the Vortex people.

Connie

[korbi_doc]

Jim, that's exactly why I hated my Vortex. That white powder, all over my tank! No matter what I did... grrrrrr. It was such a huge PITA! I have one of the original HOT Magnums from many years ago (about 13 or 14, I think) and it does an outstanding job of polishing the water. It filters down to 1 micron, with much, much less headache! I really don't use it anymore though, since I use a fine pore prefilter and a 100 micron pad in my AC500. BTW, I stomped on my Vortex and smashed it into pieces, which gave me great satisfaction, after months of trying to get SOME customer service from the Vortex people.

Connie

Wow Connie, my experience with the "Vortex people" was the opposite, good assistance, quick return, very helpful....& I've not had a problem with the "powder" in the tank at all, just need to get it running clear & put into tank, & the pitcher approach I showed works great....I also have the HOT Magnum which I also like, find it easy, don't use it with powder tho, could, not necessary with the Vortex....guess you just need a little experience to use it....wish you had sent it to me, lol.....Dottie

[poconogal]

Wow Connie, my experience with the "Vortex people" was the opposite, good assistance, quick return, very helpful....& I've not had a problem with the "powder" in the tank at all, just need to get it running clear & put into tank, & the pitcher approach I showed works great....I also have the HOT Magnum which I also like, find it easy, don't use it with powder tho, could, not necessary with the Vortex....guess you just need a little experience to use it....wish you had sent it to me, lol.....Dottie

Dottie, I had all the experience I'll ever need or want with that darn Vortex. Seriously, I used it for several months - enough I think to develop some experience with it - it was just a hunk of junk. This was about 14 years ago. And Vortex people were just horrid. You definitely would not have wanted it!
Connie

[Cosmo]

Dottie,

I actually "created" my own little valve setup using a 2"T"s and 3 little fishies ball valves. Fill the Vortex using a 5 gal bucket then set the ball valves to circulate the water through the filter. Shut it off, move it to a tank and turn it on with the valves still in internal circulation position, and then let it run the water through itself for at least an hour. Open the intake and output valves and close the valve in the middle of the T's and can't see any powder whatesoever coming out of the product end. Run the diatom for a couple hours.... tank looks like it's snowed

Oh well...

Problem in the big tank is if I don't syphon it up right away it clogs the Magnum micron cartridge I've stopped using the vortex on the big tank lol

Jim

[lhforbes12]

Dottie, I had all the experience I'll ever need or want with that darn Vortex. Seriously, I used it for several months - enough I think to develop some experience with it - it was just a hunk of junk. This was about 14 years ago. And Vortex people were just horrid. You definitely would not have wanted it!
Connie

<---------- Not telling a blonde joke... nope, wouldn't do it

If you do it the way Dottie and I do, it is simple, I never have "snow" in any tank after using a Vortex Diatom. Now I am not saying they aren't a PITA mind you, they are. But once you learn how to use one properly it is actually a very simple procedure. I run a diatom after every wc on my planted tanks, the result is that I have no algae (Dissident can attest to this, he's seen them). Diatom filters are fine "water polishers" but their main purpose is to remove things otherr filters are just not capable of. Like algae spores, some bacteria, and even parsites like Ich. IMO the Vortex company is horrid, and the design is old (I owned one thirty years ago and the design is basically the same, the things have changed, like their "new and improved" re-charge valve suck. The new recharge valve should be called the "guaranteed to leak valve") and was a bad design then as now. There is simply nothing else that comes close to what it can do though. I hear a lot of people saying that their water is crystal clear, that's just not true, put a diatom on an acrylic tank and fish look like they are swimming in air, literally. On my 125 I have both 100 micron and 50 micron pads in the sump, the diatom still makes that tank MUCH clearer.

Larry

[Dissident]

Larry,
I don’t think anyone is debating the practical purposes or effectiveness of a diatom filter.
To keep it more on point, do you think given lora’s situation and expectations warrant a diatom filter? Or just a good UV?
We established that Diatom’s are a PITA and what the benefits are. If I had a diatom filter I would of course use it as you do, right after WC and then dose ferts after that. But should one be used over a UV for a proactive attack against algae blooms, bacteria blooms, parasites, etc?

[t2000kw]

Thanks for the feedback, I read some earlier posts that Diatom filters were not good for planted tanks as they remove nutrients necessary for good plant growth. But on the other hand, they sound like it would be good for the fish by removing parasites and bacteria and my fish are much more imporant than the plants. I think I'll get one and give it a try. Lora.

Since you are interestedin diatom filters in planted tanks, this might interest you, as I have only planted tanks. This review includes the Vortex XL and the System 1 diatom filters.

I bought a Vortex XL, and as another person said, it was the most horrible product I've ever worked with. I must agree that is is not user friendly also. It was difficult to get a good seal on the top of the unit. The optional, but useful (if it didn't leak badly) recharge valve leaked soon after starting the filter up. The hoses didn't blow off, but there are people who have reported that it would pop off a hose and drain their aquarium if they weren't in the room when it happened. The hose clamps supplied with the unit are rubber bands, not real clamps. The filter bag looks flimsy to me but it did the job. I would soubt that you'd get many uses out of one bag before needing to replace it.

On the other hand, to be fair, there were some positive points about it. It cleaned the water FAST. In my 100 gallon fancy goldfish heavily planted tank, it made a big difference in an hour and in two hours it was squeaky clean. I could see clear to the back of the tank.

This tank had an algae bloom a few days before since we had removed some plants to start another tank (plants help keep algae in check by using up nutrients the algae would otherwise get) and also left the lights on a few nights in a row since I'm not the usual keeper of this tank. The plants were put back in and about 1/3 of the algae bloom went away in a few days while I waited for the Vortex. The vortex took care of the rest.

I took the Vortex back to a Petsmart store (they take returns for purchases from Petsmart.com) and ordered a System 1 diatom filter. Nothing could be easier. You put some diatomaceous earth in the plastic jar, place the filter media into the top section, add a little water to the jar and wet the DE, clean the top of the jar and add some petroleum jelly (makes the seal last longer), then screw the jar into the top and turn it on. It doesn't seem quite as powerful as the Vortex, and, unlike the Vortex, which can run 24/7, it is made for a maximum run time of 4 hours. This is not an issue for me since diatom filters are typically used for maintenance (clearing up water), not continuous filtration.

The Vortex and System 1 are easy to clean, but the System 1 is easier to clean and takes up less storage room.

Other than the speed of cleaning, which is also not an issue with me, the System 1 is superior to the Vortex. I believe that other media can be bought to use with the System 1 but I haven't tried doing that.

I never tried the Hot Magnum but some claim it can be used with DE also. Some have said that since it isn't made to be a "pressure" filter, it is not as effective as a filter made specifically for DE filtration. It is cheaper, so if you can buy it form a place that allows you to return it if you're not satisfied, you might try that one first. However, if you buy a System 1, you will not regret it.

[t2000kw]

We established that Diatom’s are a PITA and what the benefits are. If I had a diatom filter I would of course use it as you do, right after WC and then dose ferts after that. But should one be used over a UV for a proactive attack against algae blooms, bacteria blooms, parasites, etc?

As for a diatom filter being a pain in the rear, the System 1 is definitely not. It is about as easy to set up as a conventional power filter and easier than something like a Fluval canister filter, though they are all different.

The Vortex WAS difficult to use, and if that was the only way I could do it, I might have given up on the idea.

That said, diatom filtration is not the way to deal with bacteria. It is the choice method of dealing with parasites and algae blooms, though. Bacteria are (generally) too small to be trapped by the DE.

UV might be a good choice if it was bacteria that you needed to remove.

Together they can deal with many problems. The UV can deal with the bacteria over time, and probably help with the algae, though the DE works much faster on the algae.

The DE filter can remove algae within an hour or so in a 100 gallon tank, less with a smaller tank. It removes parasites that are in the water, but not in or on the fish. It can remove ick, but only in the stage that it is going from the fish to the bottom or from the bottom to the fish.

If it were an ick infection to deal with, for example, I would consider DE and chemical methods of dealing with the parasite. In our setup, we had to use medication at 1/2 dose and elevated temperatures (speeds up the life cycle of ick and helps weaken it) to get rid of it since we have planted tanks with bottom feeders.

If you use UV, make sure your UV bulbs are still producing UV. Since you can't see it with your eyes, you have to go by the manufacturer's recommendation on replacement intervals (or use some way of determining when the UV is down 20% or so from the rated output) or you will just have a flourescent tube shining on the water as it passes by without doing much for killing off bateria.

[t2000kw]

Hi Lora, every tank that I have set up, over the last 15 years or so, has had that slightly white, cloudy look appear a few weeks after set up. Its normal, nothing to worry about, just a little bacterial bloom. In fact, in thinking about it, I had that occur about 6-8 weeks after setting up a 20 gal. community tank in February. It took about 1 to 1-1/2 weeks to clear up, on its own.

Some people's tanks take a long time to clear up. Until a tank cycles, it will look cloudy. With plants and some fish (goldfish are a good choice to cycle a tank since they produce a lot of waste and are more tolerant of ammonia than many other fish), you could cycle a tank in several days (we've done that). You can do it in a planted tank with no fish by adding some ammonia now and then (see Walstad's book) to simulate fish waste products.

Once the bacteria get a foothold in your filter or other bio-media (rocks, plants, etc.), they will convert ammonia to nitrates, then others will convert nitrates into nitrites. Plants can use up these as nutrients. When this ecosystem is balanced, your water will be clear, unless you have other problems (algae, for example).

You may just need to be patient or add some fish. Too many water changes can short-circuit the cycle. A friend of ours who doesn't listen to advice very well has had a cloudy tank for months. She changes water very often.

[t2000kw]

Dissident, you say you only clean your filter once every three months? I'm cleaning mine at least every two weeks. So, is all the "gunk" that builds up inside the filter necessary for good biological filtration? Also, what type of UV filter do you use?

According to Walstad, the gunk IS your biological filtration. The slimy stuff are colonies of a mix of aerobic and anerobic bacteria. Get rid of that stuff and you lose some of your filtration.