Breeding Rams - remove parents?

[Dillan]

I have a young pair of Bolivian Rams that have laid eggs three times. I've only got ony baby to show for it because
- I went to Vegas the day after the first batch and they were all dead when I got back
- the parents ate the second batch
- I removed the parents just before the third batch hatched; most turned white and I guess were infertile, and those that hatched wriggled on the bottom but died before swimming

Question to successful Ram breeders: Do you remove the parents before the eggs hatch? Why do you think my wrigglers never swam and didn't survive?

The parents are back in a community tank now but I'd still like to see if I can raise a batch of babies. Haha... will be some time yet before I'm a Discus grandpa... In the meantime, it would be fun to practice raising Ram babies. Any advice?

[JeffreyRichard]

If the fry died, mostlikely the water quality or parameters were not up to snuff. Make sure you use soft, acid water for raising rams. That might also be the same problem with the white eggs ... I went thru a period where the hatch rate of good angelfish pairs went down ... because I was using a buffer that added too many TDS to the water. Water should be soft (=low TDS) for most cichlids. If your water is hard, or you use a product like Seachem's discus buffer (which I did), you could have problems with the eggs.

I would recommend putting the pair into there own tank (10 gallons) and let them spawn in there. Give them a flat rock or a piece of slate to lay the eggs on. Once the eggs are layed, move the eggs/rock to a separate hatchout tank OR remove the parents ... hatching the eggs out independent of the parents usually gives a higher number of fry. I use the same method used for angelfish eggs ... add fungacide (I use Formalyn) at 2 drops per gallon, use a gentle air flow near the eggs, set temperature at 82 degrees; eggs will hatch in 48-72 hours and the fry will go free swimming in 5-7 days. WHEN all fry are free swimming, feed with live baby brine shrimp 2-5 times daily. Add sponge filter; do regular water changes.

[rcomeau]

It hasn't been 2 month since I purchased my Rams and I have been loosing two a week. They spawned many times but the eggs never stayed longer than a day. I'm also considering a dedicated 10 gallon for a pair and/or a cave. Please post your experience if you do setup a 10 gallon tank for breeding.

This article is informative... http://apisto.bravepages.com/Ram%20article.htm

[Dillan]

eggs will hatch in 48-72 hours and the fry will go free swimming in 5-7 days

So what are the wrigglers doing between 72 hours and day 5? Just wiggling on the bottom? I guess they feed off a yolk sac until they are swimming and eating brine shrimp?

I was worried that maybe the parents did something to encourage wrigglers to start swimming and that I had screwed up by removing the parents. Sounds like that's normal practice though.

I do use a buffer to stabilize pH, but kH is still extremely low so I doubt that's the problem. I'll put an airstone next to the eggs next time, but I'm guessing the problem with decomposing eggs last time was just inexperienced parents that didn't get all the eggs fertilized. Still mystified about why my wrigglers didn't ever swim this time.

[JeffreyRichard]

So what are the wrigglers doing between 72 hours and day 5? Just wiggling on the bottom? I guess they feed off a yolk sac until they are swimming and eating brine shrimp?

Yes, they are feeding off their yolk and just wiggling on the bottom (or the rock they were spawned on).

I do use a buffer to stabilize pH, but kH is still extremely low so I doubt that's the problem.

Chances are the buffer is affecting your hatchout. It's not just kH you need to be concerned about, but the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS). I'm willing to bet that if you test your water for TDS you'll fid it high. High TDS can cause eggs to calify ... the eggs will absorb the solids in solution. One way around this is to use PEAT instead of the buffer.