Saying "Hi" w/planted tank pics - Kahuna's Revenge

[Ed13]

I LOVE your aquascape! I also like that you choose all RTs and only 6 for that tank. If I had a suggestion it would be to perhaps add some cories as clean up crew. The cardinals and otos were a very good choice IMO, but I wouldn't have a planted discus tank without either of them in it <grin> Your design shows both good knowledge and creativity, it is a very well executed too. Excellent job!

Larry pretty much summarized what I wanted to say , especially about the discus being all turks
BTW, it doesn't hurt when you have access to the ADA line right?

Scolley have to laugh, I thought I was the founder of the riccia haters club its like unruly teenagers on crack looks great in show tanks for the show then just goes nuts and you end up ripping it all out and swearing you'll never ever use it again (but you do....)

Been there done that, I had a 90gal literally drowned by riccia, won't use it again, OK maybe that new nano I'm doing . I need therapy

[tpl*co]

I'd offer to send you some. I had some floating (for faster growth) in my grow-out tank. But some bozo sent me a plant with some hidden duckweed. Next thing I knew, I was throwing out EVERYTHING floating in that tank to eradicate the stuff - including the mini-riccia.

But I salvaged a tiny, tiny bit and if you are interested, in 4 to 6 months there may be some to send. Just lemme know.



Marsilea minuta is a wonderful plant IMO. I don't know if you can see it in the pics, but it's a ground cover. But much less finicky, or difficult, than riccia, Hemianthus Callitrichoides (HC), Hemianthus micranthemoides, or Glossostigma elatinoides (glosso). In this tank it can possibly be seen in small clearing in the middle mid-ground of the tank.

It has not grown in well. But IMO the important point is that is IS growing, even though I keep the lights and ferts low to avoid Green Spot Algae (GSA) on the anubias. It would be happier with more fert and light, but it tolerates the low conditions and continues to slowly spread.

Unfortunately is it really hard to find. Mine was a gift, and I would be remiss if I mentioned the source - then everyone would be asking them. There is one retailer that will sell it to you, and I'm not going to bad mouth them here. But if you find that retailer, my advice to you is DON'T BUY.

Instead I'll ask this... please send me a PM is 3-4 months. I'm SURE I'll have extra then, and would be HAPPY to send you some.

Don't get me started on Duckweed either! OK on the Marsilea, I'll take you up on your offer in 3-4 months .

Tina

[scolley]

Your tank doesn't have a cener bracket. That's cool. Your engineering skills are very impressive.

No engineering skills I'm afraid. You can see the whole mess over at planted tank. Kind of an amusing story really, I wanted a tank I couldn't get/afford, and someone suggested I build it. At first I laughed it off, then I started researching it, and tried it.

Like I said, I had to re-silicone 7 times before I got it right. But now it's all documented here, and I think anyone could do it.

...I also like that you choose all RTs...

Larry pretty much summarized what I wanted to say , especially about the discus being all turks BTW, it doesn't hurt when you have access to the ADA line right?

So are you guys really saying these are Red Turqs? When I bought cobalts? I thought I was buying a fish that would, like an RT, always have some vertical bars (hopefully very little), but definately around the eye. And that as Cobalts they would develop their final colors slowly, and also likely have the slightly larger than "ideal" eye size that cobalts tend to have.

But you think these are RTs? I'm a newbie at this stuff, so if you are pulling my leg, the joke is flying over my head.

And yes, access to the ADA products is great. I think the biggest advantage the ADA products bring this tank is keeping algae off the slow-growing anubias. I'm keeping my water column very lean, trusting the AS to have most of the nutrients the rooted plants need (for now), while the lean water column nourishes the less demanding anubias. And I believe that the early use of an iron free macro fert (Green Brighty Step 1) kept algae down when the tank was very young. I am adding iron now, but I eased into is slowly. Using the ADA micro product allowed me to provide iron-free micros and hold off on any (algae stimulating) iron until I could observe signs that the plants definately needed it.

...If I had a suggestion it would be to perhaps add some cories as clean up crew. The cardinals and otos were a very good choice IMO, but I wouldn't have a planted discus tank without either of them in it <grin>

Thanks for that suggestion too. I've been mulling over it...

Feeding the discus has absolutely created a excess food problem. No matter how they try, bits of bloodworm or tiny nuggets of Tetra Color Bits wind up in the plants. So far the otos have been ferreting that out pretty well. So much
so I'm afraid that they will stop eating algae, switching to excess discus food instead.

So I pondered adding a food-cleaner, such as a cory, but I was afraid that would make another problem worse - discus sucking! The d*mn otos have taken to sucking the slime coat off the discus. I've removed every oto that I caught doing that (maybe 6 or 7) and am hoping that soon what I have left will be less aggressive otos. But if I put in something like cories, hunger could push those less aggressive otos into discus sucking too! Or that's my thinking anyway. It's one reason why I'm hesitant to put in anythings else to eat the excess food.

Also, the Marsilea minuta has really shallow roots, and the Aquasoil is very loose on the surface. I'm concerned that something like cories will rip it all up.

And one more point, on the cory topic... what about Botia striata instead? Not only would they eat leftovers, but they woul also assassinate my expanding snail population. I'd love to be able to stop manually removing snails! But again, loaches might rip up the Marsilea minuta too, and might also aggravate the aforementioned oto slime sucking problem.

You're thoughts on this little dilemma are MOST welcome.

Don't get me started on Duckweed either! OK on the Marsilea, I'll take you up on your offer in 3-4 months

Pls shoot me a PM in a few months to remind me Tina.

[poconogal]

Simply Stunning!

[tpl*co]

OK another question Scolley,

What type of wood is that and where did you get it? The stuff at the LFS is that malaysian stuff and it is so thick! Not the fine, slim twigs you've got there.

Tina

[Ed13]

So are you guys really saying these are Red Turqs? When I bought cobalts? I thought I was buying a fish that would, like an RT, always have some vertical bars (hopefully very little), but definately around the eye. And that as Cobalts they would develop their final colors slowly, and also likely have the slightly larger than "ideal" eye size that cobalts tend to have.

But you think these are RTs? I'm a newbie at this stuff, so if you are pulling my leg, the joke is flying over my head.

Well they are turks red , blue and cobalts all are turk based fish, the main difference(someone correct me if I wrong) is that cobalts will lose for the most part the striations on the body becoming solid blue in that area and may even loose the ones on the head, stress bars will vary. Between the red and blue turks the difference is the base color, since both will have striations.

I do believe you bought cobalts, or were they blue turks

BTW, bottias are too boisterous for a planted or discus tank.
Go for the cory you won't regret it. C gossei, C sterbai, C aneus, Brochis slendus are the better suited for the long term in the high temps. C trilineatus and many cory from Brazil will do but no matter how many success stories you hear the above mentioned are the better suited for the environment you are providing! I myself have kept C elegance and panda but can't recommend it

Any doubts do a search of the site since the topic has been discussed already

[soundtweakers]

It's time for me to go check out plantedtank.net again. Haven't been there for a while since the discus bug bit.

[scolley]

Well they are turks red , blue and cobalts all are turk based fish, the main difference(someone correct me if I wrong) is that cobalts will lose for the most part the striations on the body becoming solid blue in that area and may even loose the ones on the head, stress bars will vary. Between the red and blue turks the difference is the base color, since both will have striations.

I do believe you bought cobalts, or were they blue turks

Thanks (really!) for confirming what I THOUGHT I knew. Problem is, of course, as a discus newb you can't know the difference between what you think, and what you know.

That confirmation is MUCH appreciated!

BTW, bottias are too boisterous for a planted or discus tank.
Go for the cory you won't regret it. C gossei, C sterbai, C aneus, Brochis slendus are the better suited for the long term in the high temps. C trilineatus and many cory from Brazil will do but no matter how many success stories you hear the above mentioned are the better suited for the environment you are providing! I myself have kept C elegance and panda but can't recommend it

Any doubts do a search of the site since the topic has been discussed already

Gotta disagree with you there though. biotas can be great in a planted tank. A planted discus tank is potentially a different kettle of worms, granted. I'm sure cory's are excellent in discus tanks, an excellent temperament to be sure. But biota striata are also quite agreeable fish. Though I do agree, they are QUITE boisterous. I suppose the question is how boisterous is TOO boisterous.

I have a set of 3 in another tank that I've been toying with putting in my discus tank. I've not done it to date because I've assumed it would be way too hard to get them out if I made a mistake. But I put a baited fish trap in their tank today, and had ALL THREE of them within 5 minutes! So under the assumption that it will be equally easy to remove them from my discus tank, I'm gonna give it a shot.

Thanks for the advice. I'm sure it is correct, and the accepted norm. I'm just not thrilled by cory's. It's just a personal preference, or lack thereof...

What type of wood is that and where did you get it? The stuff at the LFS is that malaysian stuff and it is so thick! Not the fine, slim twigs you've got there.

Tina I got that wood from ADG. It's GREAT stuff! It looks like twigs, as you put it, but they are hard as nails, and sink like lead. And are totally cured... not at all algae prone!

The stuff is so hard, that on the first night I was setting up my tank, I took a piece outside to break in half. I wanted a natural looking break, not sawed off or anything, so I stuck it on a ledge and STOMPED it real hard! The "twig" swung up and hit me in the shin SO hard that I had to have it x-rayed the next day for a break! I had to go to the doctor's twice more to ensure that the damage was not permanent!

I don't mean to complain. I'm not. I just want to emphasize that this wood is like IRON, and worth every nickel. If you want some, call Jeff Senske at ADG and I'm sure he will set you up.

He got me EXACTLY what I was looking for. And I'm sure that's just the service they offer - you don't just pay for a piece of driftwood. You pay for driftwood that fits your purpose! Just as it should be...

[Ed13]

Gotta disagree with you there though. biotas can be great in a planted tank. A planted discus tank is potentially a different kettle of worms, granted. I'm sure cory's are excellent in discus tanks, an excellent temperament to be sure. But biota striata are also quite agreeable fish. Though I do agree, they are QUITE boisterous. I suppose the question is how boisterous is TOO boisterous.

I have a set of 3 in another tank that I've been toying with putting in my discus tank. I've not done it to date because I've assumed it would be way too hard to get them out if I made a mistake. But I put a baited fish trap in their tank today, and had ALL THREE of them within 5 minutes! So under the assumption that it will be equally easy to remove them from my discus tank, I'm gonna give it a shot.

That's what I meant their speed alone, at least for me takes the serene out of a planted tank(even though they are calmed most of the time), and that speed may benefit them from taking too much food away from the discus. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against botias but in my case they only seem to work in two tanks a 180g and a 300g, both planted with discus. The loaches were introduced after the discus reach adulthood and they were in small numbers

I must admit that when I thought about bottias I thought about the clowns

Do whatever feels right for you its your tank, and a beautiful one to!

[scolley]

That's what I meant their speed alone, at least for me takes the serene out of a planted tank(even though they are calmed most of the time), and that speed may benefit them from taking too much food away from the discus.

Thanks for the feedback! And quite frankly, I think we are probably in massive agreement here...

they can work...
but they might be too "boisterous", as you so perfectly put it!

I agree 100%. But what I can see, that you cannot, is that I've got dozens and dozens of otos in this tank now. All to fight algae. And even though I am removing oto's darn near every day - every time I see one grab a discus - the tank is far, far, far from tranquil now. Too much moving around.

That said, b. striata are somewhat reclusive, and will stick to cover if there is ample food to keep them from foraging in open areas. So I'm hoping that they will eat discus leftovers, polish off the snails, and then hold to cover. And that will allow me to remove a few more otos, otos that DO NO hold to cover.

But I am TOTALLY ready to be completely wrong about this, and I DO appreciate the guidance. I just happen to have the loaches in my possession now. They were easy to catch, QT is unnecessary, so I figured it's worth a shot.

But stay posted! If it doesn't work out - if they prove to add too much frenzied karma to the hopefully tranquil tank - I'll definately post it so the community will know.

[tpl*co]

Burmese border loaches are pretty low key too. I've got 5.

Tina

[lhforbes12]

Normally Ed and I agree pretty well, this is one time that we don't. I agree with you Scolley, I have 6 chromobotia macaranthus (clown loaches) in the heavily planted 125 and I have no problem with them and the discus. As for the oto problem, I find that adding algae wafers every other day completely stops otos from slime sucking, if they aren't starving they have little reason to try and attach is my view. That same tank also has two common plecos and two L-017, none of them are slime suckers, mainly because I treat them as fish that need to be fed, I think.

[Ed13]

My argument only holds true for tanks under six feet
I've being on the receiving end of hobbyists returning clown loaches after the loaches began "behaving badly" with their discus tankmates and/or plants when the loaches get bigger. I've also seen full grown clowns and at 13"( only once but I've seen a lot in the 8"-10"range, they reach 15"-20" in the wild were they are prized a a sport fish) can't really recommend them for small tanks, they grow slowly, but I try to refrain from placing an animal in a tank or pond that can't sustain them their whole life, even if that means a couple of decades!
Don't be offended its just the way I see things!

[Marinemom]

I would just like to say that I think that your tank is absolutely beautiful. I love all the plants and the fish look so lovely swimming through the plants. Nice job!

Diane

[Kindredspirit]

I agree Diane! Very nice Steve


Marie ~