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Thread: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

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    Exclamation Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    HI all,
    I have been hearing of possible reactions by discus to Prazi products... Not anything concrete at this point but there does appear to be some Risks under some conditions for its use...Not sure what these are yet but I thought we might talk about it..

    If you have had any problems with medications containing praziquantel..please share them here in as much detail as you can..

    Thanks,
    al
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    Registered Member Wahter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    I had some trouble when I mixed praziquantel and metronidazole together one time. Luckily, I was there to watch the fish and was able to do several water changes to prevent the fish from dying.

    Jeff had made a post about using Parasite Clear and his unfortunate experience:

    http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...le+prazi+metro
    Walter

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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    IMO I believe a High Bioload has alot to do with it!

    Either from Dirty tanks, To many Occupants, low oxygen levels + parmeters.

    HTH
    Cary

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    Registered Member Elcid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    I've been using AquaScience Praziquantel Powder with much success.

    HTH,
    Sandeep

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    Question Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    Interesting time for this thread to have begun. Just this morning I walked into the fishroom to see 26 out of 30 ~1" albino bristlenose plecoes dead. I received 11 wild discus on the 12th from Belowwater, and Oliver strongly suggested treating them with prazi. I just figured I'd treat all my fish tanks. I had the BN's in 2 tanks of recent spawns I am raising up. These tanks get 20% W/C each morning and a 90% W/C every evening. I used Prazi Pro. I have never had anything like this happen in the past. The discus fry are fine as are adult BN's in other treated tanks. I never used prazi on BN's that small before.

    Mat

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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    Just curious if there is a praziquantel product you all agree on, or have had good success with? I am new to this thing of worming discus. This could be the reason I've lost so many. I would like to try this if you have a good recomendation. Thanks, Joela
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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    I wish I had read this thread a few days ago.....I used a prazi product by JUNGLE products. It contains prazi, diflubenzuron, metronidazole and acriflavine. My discus turned black and I'm sure I will lose 2 of them. Right now I'm in the process of doing one third water changes every hour. The young ones have perked up but the older ones seem to have taken it the hardest. I used the same product at the same time on my community tank and everything seems fine, I lost 1 tetra but the medicine may not have had anything to do with it. Any suggestions on my water changes? thanks elaine

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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    Elaine.
    I wish I had read this thread a few days ago.....I used a prazi product by JUNGLE products. It contains prazi, diflubenzuron, metronidazole and acriflavine. My discus turned black and I'm sure I will lose 2 of them. Right now I'm in the process of doing one third water changes every hour. The young ones have perked up but the older ones seem to have taken it the hardest. I used the same product at the same time on my community tank and everything seems fine, I lost 1 tetra but the medicine may not have had anything to do with it. Any suggestions on my water changes?

    You haven't said what was wrong in the first place with your fish.
    As far as wc's go if you aren't using stored water I think it may have a worse effect on your fish.

    After reading Jeff's thread from the link here and posts here I think we are starting to get in a dangerous area listing meds that we think have effected our fish in a bad way before looking at all the facts.
    http://www.atthegateministries.org/index.html

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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    I recently exposed my adults to a long treatment of prazi & metro combined and with the exception of the first treatement ( where they did look just a little uncomfortable) there was no ill effect as far as I can detect. Conversely, all of the fish are acting just fine and eating better than before the treatment.

    My old BD even started growing back some of his Dorsal fin, which had looked like a Mohawk hairdoo for several years following a severe "bad water" WC. I had thought 4 year olds were too old to do that

    Went to the store and found most of the parasite "cures" had metro and prazi as main ingredients, so I just used the powders I had bought at Jehmco and made my own concoction. It's a 180 gal tank and I dosed with
    - 2 teaspoons prazi powder dissolved in a small amount of vodka
    - added about 1/2 cup RO water
    - mixed in 2 teaspoons metro
    shook well and administered daily following a 45/50% WC.

    This was obviously not done as a phrophylactic treatment, and I was worried (and even prepared) for some fatalaities ,but I had reason to believe there was a parasitic issue in the tank. Fortunately, like I stated, they all survived and thrived

    I always run LOTS of air through my tank and maybe that helped during treatment?

    Jim
    Last edited by Cosmo; 01-22-2007 at 10:31 AM.
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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by sonflowerjoela View Post
    Just curious if there is a praziquantel product you all agree on, or have had good success with?
    Praziquantel is the problem.... its not tested or proven to be safe for fish use as far as I have been able to find out, if it was, would a certain well known make have notes like these on it? if its like that for humans, I dont think the fishies eyes would like it either.

    Caution: In case of contact with eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes. In case of skin contact, wash with soap and plenty of water. If swallowed, rinse mouth with water (if person is conscious). Obtain medical advice.

    Praziquantel works by forcing the parsites muscles to contract and relax until it dies. One of the problem with this is that often the parasite stays inside the fish and rots or only the body is removed by the fish, leaving the head in place, sometimes leading to the fish getting infected with whatever else the parasite has been in

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    Registered Member tpl*co's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulf View Post

    Praziquantel works by forcing the parsites muscles to contract and relax until it dies. One of the problem with this is that often the parasite stays inside the fish and rots or only the body is removed by the fish, leaving the head in place, sometimes leading to the fish getting infected with whatever else the parasite has been in
    ACK! How that must feel to the discus having a tapeworm contract and relax inside of them!

    Tina

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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    Praziquantel works by forcing the parsites muscles to contract and relax until it dies. One of the problem with this is that often the parasite stays inside the fish and rots or only the body is removed by the fish, leaving the head in place, sometimes leading to the fish getting infected with whatever else the parasite has been in[/QUOTE]

    If this is the case how would you get these worms out of your fish???
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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    Actually, I don't believe muscular contraction is the reason for Prazi effectiveness. I don't think it's a nicotinic receptor agonist like most pesticides. I'll look it up.

    I observed an adverse reaction once when using pure Praziquantel powder. I believe it was caused by overdose. This was in my quarantine tank when I was treating some new Otos. I always keep some Discus culls in my quarantine tank, both to keep it cycled, and as a "test" for any diseases brought in by new fish.

    So the culls had no diseases, and had been treated with Prazi before with no ill effects.

    I believe I overdosed the Prazi because I mixed the powder in hot, distilled water, then poured the appropriate amount in the tank. However, as usual, a substantial amount of the powder had not dissolved. I was preparing enough Prazi solution to last through several water changes, so there was a fair amount of excess powder floating on the top of the liquid. When I poured the "proper" amount of liquid into the tank, ALL of the powder that hadn't dissolved also went into the tank. This was about 9 pm at night. I thought nothing of it, but when I came back to look at the tank the next morning, all of the fish were floating upside down, breathing very slowy. I did a complete water change, and within a few minutes, all of the fish were much better, and all survived. I don't beleive low oxygen was a factor as none of the fish gasped, breathed heavily or any other signs of asphixia.

    I have subsequently used the same batch Prazi many times on several varieties of fish including otos and BNs, but made sure the undissolved powder always went in in the appropriate amount. I have not observed any adverse reactions since then. This is still the same lot of Prazi, so I don't believe the lot was bad.

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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by Alight View Post
    Actually, I don't believe muscular contraction is the reason for Prazi effectiveness. I don't think it's a nicotinic receptor agonist like most pesticides. I'll look it up.

    Please do then you will see I am right

    If this is the case how would you get these worms out of your fish???
    You dont, thats why I dont like it....

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    Default Re: Praziquantel products and adverse reactions

    Paulf was at least partly right. Prazi does cause muscular contraction in cestids. However, the description of "violent contractions" is a bit on the extreme side. In lower concentrations, Prazi causes the worm to lose suction in their suckers, causing them to be expelled. There is also an action on the tegument, causing intestinal worms to be exposed to intestinal proteases that chew up the worms. If small enough, this results in their digestion.

    In humans the description of the drug is amazingly benign. Side effects at even very high overdose concentrations has been associated with almost no side effects.

    For fluke treatment, the contractions are, obviously, not important. For tapeworms, even large ones, the contractions are of no concern. The only concern would be from large worms and heavy infestations where the worms come loose and block the intestinal tract because they are in too large a size to be digested quickly.

    The recommendation here would be to treat with Epsom salts when you use Prazi for tapeworm treatment to aid in expelling the dead and dying worms.

    The other recommendation would be to treat with Prazi early, when worms are likely to be much smaller. In other words, treat all new fish as if they had tapeworms before introducing them to already treated fish.

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