Wet/Dry or Canister

[diablocanine]

ahhh, Im very familiar with pvc, however, is the pvc glue toxic to fish? or do you use an aquairum sealant?

That would be really easy to make, but since I do not currently have a canister filter, how about connection to the outlet from the filter?

I have had no problems with the all purpose cement. Here are some links for ideas (the Discus tank is currently being rebuilt, will have a 20 gallon sump and 2 eheim 2215s.)......DC
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/eq...nal-sorta.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/di...g-my-55-a.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/di...-manifold.html

[Vorian]

whoa, I learned alot in those links. Very nice set up, I understood the pvc parts and I know what most of the stuff does but not how to work it or set it up.

Im sure with more attention to it and practice Ill pick it up.

Anyways I've decided to start a bit smaller and get the Discus part of the equation figured first, Im going to start with a smaller 50 gal tank. It will be bare at first, but I think its best to start small and build up.

Thanks alot for all the info, I finally feel I've found the info resource I needed and Ill be sure to post pics along the way. And ofcoarse keep asking all my boat load of questions

Thanks,
James

[dandestroy]

I'm running 2 canister eheim on a 80 gal tank, works great but if I had to go bigger like 200 gal and over, I would clearly build one big sump... cause there is no limit to the size of it as compare to pre build canister (much cheaper IMO)

[greyhoundfan]

I have a 100 G, It's doing just fine with two Fluval 404s.

DC, your set up is awesome.

[Harriett]

I have had no problems with the all purpose cement. Here are some links for ideas (the Discus tank is currently being rebuilt, will have a 20 gallon sump and 2 eheim 2215s.)......DC
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/eq...nal-sorta.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/di...g-my-55-a.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/di...-manifold.html

I built a PVC spray bar for my FX5 and did NOT glue anything together. The PVC pieces fit tightly enough that those connections are just twisted into elbow or T connectors or whatever, and are holding fine (10 months later); with some moderate muscle I can take them apart to clean or change up the design. The other connections are male/female threaded. I wanted the flexibility to change/shorten/lengthen pieces without making a permament commitment with glue or worrying about toxicities for the fish.
I have made minor design changes several times and am happy I decided to do it this way!
best regards
Harriett

[jkb]

bought a 75 about 6months ago put a marineland canister rated for 100gal tank and a hang on skilter250 on has a protein skimmer in its helps in airation have 5 discus 3angels 12 serpa tetras 3black neons and a pleco and almost forgot a betta all doing well i looked at the same tank youre looking at just didnt want to spend the extra mony i guess im cheap

[kaceyo]

Do you ever get enough foam from your Skilter to spill over into the collection cup?

Kacey

[MD Bandit]

Lots of great and confusing info on these two pages. I have a 90 gallon show tank in the family room. No discus yet. Currently using an Eheim 2217, a Hydro4 Sponge, and a Magnum HOT out back with a micron. I just experienced a bio crash from cleaning all of them within a weeks time. Lost about 20 smaller tetras from it or about 70.00, still, it hurts. Anyway, I guy I work with SWEARS by the wet/dry system and tells me every chance he gets to go that route. So heres my dilemma, I'm a newbie at those systems.
If I were to place an order through Big Al's, what do I get? Does it need a pump? Or is there a complete 'kit' out there? I looked at the Marineland tidepool and a few others. I would like to keep at least one of the current three filtration systems as a back up to the wet/dry. Probably the Eheim. What would you guys do?

[DiscusOnly]

If you are running multiples filter on your tank, why did you clean all of them at once? I run 2 canister (2 diffferent brands) on my 90 gal and never a problem. They are set up as bio only filter and I take turn cleaning them.

The wet/dry gives you some nice options in term of a cleaner look but I wouldn't say a wet/dry is a must for a 90 gal. I am working on getting a 175 gal and I am not even sure if I would go with a wet/dry route.

[RockHound]

Years back, I switched to wet/dry trickle filters (W/D T/F) & never looked back.

If you have an open cell foam prefilter in front of a W/D T/F, and clean that foam prefilter periodically.
A W/D T/F will run almost forever, without any maintenance.
Then, if it requires any, it is usually only vacuuming out a paper thin streak of accumulated micro-silt, that may settle out, in the sump area.

The design of an effective W/D T/F is such the biomedia is self cleaning.
Once the biomedia is colonized, any dieing/dead biofilm simply sloughs off the media & young new biofilm forms in it’s place.

Moreover, many of the canister filter manufactures are full of BS, when it comes to the how much actual effective biomedia surface area they contain.
Most are touted as model X will handle a 55g aquarium, model XX will handle a 75g, model XXX, a 100g, Etc.
While that might be true of water FLOW RATE.
Flow rate & biofilter surface area are two differing things.

Certainly, there has to be an adequate flow rate, over bio-media, for it to function.
But, reality is, it is how much total surface area that bacteria have to colonize within a biofilter, that determines the biofiltering capacity.

I usually run about 2 cubic ft of biomedia in a W/D T/F.
So that the bacteria has room to expand/contract to handle any potential rise/fall in the waste loads, that occur from stocking rate changes, or water conditions.
Most canister filters, the whole canister, internal pump & content are nowhere near that big.

A well designed W/D T/F, with 1 inch gravity flow into it will handle 600 GPH, no sweat.
Most individual canister filters are nowhere near that flow capacity.

You can build (DIY) a well designed W/D T/F with a huge bio-capacity.
For about the cost of a small rinky dink power canister filter.

Another advantage to W/D T/F's is having a sump area.
Where you can place heaters, aerator, whatever gizmo's you want, or a bag of peat, zeolite, etc.
Instead of in-tank, or anywhere visible.

Most canister filters are touted as 2 or 3 stage filters.
That usually being, mechanical, chemical & biological filtration.

Mechanical is trapping solids, in a screen/sieve effect, via fine floss filter pad.
Chemical is usually though activated carbon, zeolite, etc., by cation exchange.
Which also serves as second stage mechanical filtration.
As the porous chemical media also physically traps particulates.

Then comes biological, by bacteria that colonize bio-house-media in the filter.

All good & great, in theory.
However, fine physical & chemical media tend to plug.
As that is the nature of the particulate trapping function it performs.
The more it traps, the more it becomes obstructed, until it plugs.

Effective biological filtering media is combination of:
Aerobic conditions for optimal bacteria colonization, function/performance.
High total biomedia surface area, as a platform for bacteria to live on.
High void space, to allow unobstructed water/air flow through the biomedia.

Since canister filters are enclosed & pressurized.
That sets absolute limit’s on the oxygen available to bacteria in it.
To whatever is dissolved in the water running through the canister.
Which is often nowhere near optimal.

Which is not the case with a W/D T/F, as it provides a large air/water interface.
Which serves two optimal functions.
1. Provides optimal oxygen availability to bacteria in it.
2. The large air/water interface allows water to fully saturate with oxygen.
Just before it returns to the tank.
Which is not the case in an enclosed canister filter, unless it is aerated.

Then, there is the PUREE FACTOR.
If the pump in a canister filter is at the head end of the unit.
The pump impeller functions as a BLENDER BLADE.
Which purées in-flow fecal waste into micron sized particles .
Often almost invisible, or totally invisible to the naked eye.

Which is great for water clarity.
But, don’t confuse clear water, with optimal water chemistry/purity.
As, invisible toxins in water, can rapidly accumulate to injurious, or fatal levels on fish.

Look through your tank the long way.
If the water has a slight or heavy yellow/brown tint.
Your water contains a LOT of disolved organic carbon (DOC).
That is the "puree factor" in effect.

If your concern is pure functionality & high performance.
Over the looks of a swanky (expensive) acrylic container.

You can build a DIY basic W/D T/F in a couple hours, with Home-Depot/Lowes parts.
inexpensively

Size wise, they are hundreds of choices of durable tough plastic tote/storage box’s.
So, it is no big deal find a suitable size container, to fit your needs.

Once you have a durable container.
Use white egg crate type light diffuser panel, cut in pieces, to form a porous box, to hold bio-media.
Use tough plastic slip ties to hold that container tightly together.
(slip ties are used to hold electrical wiring, in bundles & are cheap.)

Rig some legs, or a stand out of PVC pipe for that box.
So, the box bottom is held even with sump high water level.

Water level is determined by height of the drain bulkhead fitting.
(bulkhead made of the gray electrical conduit type PCV fittings)
Or, a weir plate you place in the sump, in front of the drain.

Build a diffuser trickle plate out of any durable stiff flat plastic.
With lots of holes drilled in it, for water to drain through & evenly shower media below.
Size it to fit in the top of the biomedia box you built.

Cut container lid in half.
Drill a hole in one half, directly over the center of the diffuser - distribution plate.
Fit a PVC bulkhead into that hole.
Plumb water inflow to that fitting in the container lid.

Install a PVC bulkhead drain & that is about it.

There are numerous design variations, you can apply, to suit whatever end result you want.

Two 5 gallon plastic buckets with lids, will also work.
(tough, durable, inexpensive & available about anywhere)
Downside is you will not have sump space, to put things in.
As one bucket sits inside the other.

Cut 1 buckets top off @ the lowest flangle that circles it.
Drill a pattern of 1/4 inch holes in that buckets bottom.
Trim/cut lid round, so it will fit just inside the bucket top.
Drill an even pattern of 1/4 inch holes in that lid, to create a diffuser trickle plate.

Fill that bucket almost full of bio-housing media.
Sit diffuser trickle plate lid you trimmed, level, right on top the biomedia.
Install PVC fitting bulkhead in center of 2nd bucket lid.
Install PVC bulkhead fitting near base of 2nd bucket, as a drain.

Sit bucket containing biomedia & diffuser trickle plate in the other bucket.
Use PVC cement to secure it in place.

Snap on the top buckets lid.
Plumb water flow to bulkhead in top bucket lid with PVC pipe.
Plumb drain to pump return.

If you want an open sump.
You can sit the bucket combo in a sturdy storage tote.
Omit bulkhead fitting on bottom bucket hole.
Allowing water to drain directly into storage tote.
Install bulkhead fitting in the storage tote, as a drain.

You can use bioballs, monofilament pot scrubbers , cut up soaker hose, even swamp cooler pads, or whatever, as biomedia.

What it ALL comes down to is, SIMPLICITY, PERFORMANCE & STABILITY.
If well designed:
W/D T/F’s are very simple.
W/D T/F’s are high performance.
W/D T/F’s are extremely stable.

If space - height - visability is not an issue.
For a much much larger W/D T/F, use a 15, 18, or 20 gallon plastic drum.




If you want a giant size W/D T/F.
You can stack 2 drums.