General discussion on the Heckel's Natural History

[tatore]

How many heckels did you bring?
I mean, it's important a dark back cover, but about the l/r sides it doesn't matter (if you don't have aquaria in a walking area ).
Anyway with heckels time to see them not shy is needed to wait: the few times I've changed their tank I've seen them after two months

[Moon]

I got seven little ones. They do come out when hungry. The tank is in my fish room. So no heavy people traffic, only me. They seem to know me by now.
Joe

[tatore]

Great, Joe!!!
It's the best figure to start!
Please, follow us on this project, and express any impression you'll have from your...children. We all need it.
Any picture about the special guests and tank are welcome.

[Moon]

Thanks Salvo
Yes, they are my children now. My real children are all grown up and left the nest. I am not good at taking pics, but I will try.
Joe

[Heiko Bleher]

Dear all,
my name is Heiko Bleher and some may know me. I just came back from another expedition (conference and collecting in southern India with great new discoveries, although there are no discus, only 3 other cichlids, but none of the latter is new) and saw that you all have some good comments on Heckel discus. But I wanted to ad a couple as the thread is very good.

First of all I must congratulate Salvo, my dear friend and translator of the Italian version of Bleher's Discus volume 2 (which I want badly to bring this year, but with 12 more field trips and 29 conferences booked for this year, time is running out and translations in 7 languages must be completed before printing...). He is definately right what Heckels are concerned (and has very well read my volume 1 about the wild discus well), but some others not.
Yes, Heckel discus need shade and places to hide, and lots of it, it is in their nature and in their (protective) gen. But they do not live were a heavy growth of floating plants exists (as Larry mentioned), as there are very few in the acid waters of the Rio Negro system and specially hardly ever were Heckels live. The water is definately to acid for most aquatic vegetation to survive and/or drive. No "heavy growth" is able to develop. But there are, what are considered terrestrial plants, which live part of their life under water (specially in the raining season), the Amazonian acará-açú bushes. And Heckel live, feed and find protection under those in many of their habitats (well explained and documented in my volume 1). Heckels live also under logs and/or drift wood, roots and submerged branches of trees in the igapós and lagos (heckels never, or hardly ever, occur in open Rio Negro waters because of the predatation danger and the bright daily sunlight, which even in the dark water penetrates to a certain extend).
Now what one can (should?) do to keep Heckels adequately is, as Salvo already mentioned, place some Philodendron on top (ie Monstera deliciosa), so its large roots grow (almost automatically) into the aquarium water (you should have an open tank anyhow for discus). Logs (watered drift wood, roots) or what I did, and worked very well is:
1. Many years ago I asked Holger Windelov, my dear friend and founder of Tropica Plants in Denmark, to root plants onto long pieces of watered wood and place stickers on its side to attach dem to the aquarium glass. And he did. I decorated an typical Heckel discus biotope aquarium at one of the first the Zoomark Fair and Exhibitions in Firenze, Italy years back and attached those wood-grown plant pieces (they were Microsorium pteropus - not really Amazonian...), which were about 10-14 inches long, on both sides of the 7 foot aquarium and placed 20 semi adult Heckels in it. That group immediately swam below those logs and stayed they beautiful. When they moved, they swam in the group to the other side, below those attached planted logs there. It was a sight and everone wondered. The alpha animal immedietly took the lead and it was wonderful.
Another thing I did a few years back in Duisburg, at the International Discus championships in a typical Heckel discus authentic biotope aquarium with 50 adult Heckels in it from the area of the Jatapu River (see also my book, page 327) and as I wanted to do it authentic I looked for hanging in trees/branches, as I simulated the flooded forest biotope time and found in the vicinity of Duisburg, a German tree with red seeds, just like some Amazon tree in the Igapó, and I cut a branche and placed it partly submerged into the 800 gallon tank, with just some logs and fine white sand. The Heckels had the time of their life. They even started to wanting to spawn in those 4 days... Many of the over 55,000 vistors asked were I got this plant... (and could hardly belive that it was from Duisburg...).
But this is what it is in nature and the fishes (wild discus) feal it immeditely. Naturally to breed them, you need to adjust the chemical parameters, for Heckels a must. That is also why Heckels are so unique. They don't require a high oxygen level and definately no turbulent water (no strong filter outlet nor any strong aeriation – if at all), as they come from slow, or none moving aquatic habitats. In nature they start to spawn after hardly 12 month, but in aquaria only (normally) after 2 years, as they need a long acclimation period.
But as you all know, breeding Heckel discus successfully has been in the hand of a very few guys around the world. They can be counted on a single hand... (that is Heckels with Heckels, not hybrids). Surely because the biotope and chewmic al parameters have hardly ever been meet. And naturally not their nutrition (that is why in my book I wrote about that subject more than 80 pages and researched hundreds of Discus stomachs and guts during the last decades, from discus immedietely after collecting in nature).

So I hope you all will have great Heckels and a great time and success with your breeding efforts. But remember, it is the "authentic" - nature-like - biotope that will help.

Now I have to go, as I must continue volume 2, Salvo is waiting...

best regards
always
Heiko

[Moon]

Thanks for the valued information. I shall certainly try to recreate this biotope for my Heckels.
Joe

[Apistomaster]

There are several of my Heckels that have dusky colored fins I associate with brooding colors, especially two pairs that have formed bonds. One of them is the dominant or alpha male of the group.

Mentioned earlier was wondering how Heckels find each other. I get the impression they are a shoaling fish and quite social amongst themselves probably from the beginning of their lives. I would think that they find another shoal and maybe mix together then subdivide depending on the season, availabilitly of food, or any number of reasons but that individuals are the exception and not the rule. I think Salvo made the point well for keeping Heckels in groups of 10 or more to simulate their usual behavior in the wild.

Larry Waybright

[kaceyo]

When two Heckles do breed, are all the fry Heckle types or are there other types as well?
Thanks,

Kacey

[David Urban]

Thank you to all of you specially to Salvo for this magnifical post
Salvo I am from Mexico I have 5 heckel in my 40 gallons quarentine tank, could you send me a PM with how to deal with this wonderful fishes
My tank is 100 gallons with hibryds I will sell all of them just to have my heckels and RSG as well as I can
Regards

[Apistomaster]

kaceyo,
Heckels are a species of discus and not just some color variety. Hybrids occur but are basically nonviable. Heckels make Heckels and not an unpredictable variety of color varieties.

Heiko Bleher has, to my satisfaction, settled the debate about Heckel hybrids. Yes they occur but they are nonviable. The surest proof most biologists require that a species is valid is whether it is reproductively isolated.

I have felt this was the case for a very long time but it was just my opinion. We are now at the point where the burden of proof to the contrary is on those who would dispute this.

Larry Waybright

[kaceyo]

Larry,
I know there has been much debate over the classification of discus in general and Heckle is generaly considered a species in itself, but have never had the chance to ask someone who has actually bred two wild Heckles how much variation there is within a spawn.

Kacey

[Heiko Bleher]

Dear Kacey,

if you really are able to breed Heckel discus with Heckel discus, you should have very little color variation between them, specially if you have received (bought) them from one and the same source. Once they are from one source the possibility is nearly 100%, that they both (or all) come from the same collection spot/area.
But you can see it in my book, on the pages 165 up 177 (and elsewhere in the book), the color variants I found in nature (with the exact location). There you can compare with thoset you have and classify them easy. And than you will know what you will get out, once you spawn and raised them.

Good luck and all the best

Heiko Bleher

[Apistomaster]

Well, that is why we formed a Heckel subforum. I have been planning my own project dedicated to breeding Heckels in captivity after 40 years of discus breeding. I have spawned and raised all other categories of wild discus, greens and the blue/browns.

It was clear to me in 1970 when I obtained my first Heckels that this discus was very different from the others. The intervening years have done nothing to change my mind.

As H. Bleher has said, only a hand full of aquarists have accomplished captive breeding of Heckels. I would add to that: this statement covers about 50 years of keeping discus by the best and brightest aquarists of the 20TH Century.

That doesn't mean it can't be done or I would sell mine all off and go get some greens.

I think it is useful (at least for myself) to consider the Heckels in the same light as the pioneers of raising reef fish in captivity. Accept the paradigm that the Heckel will not yield it's biological mysteries easily or quickly. Accept that this is an aquaristic challenge with few freshwater paralellels but one that has unparalelled rewards if and when we understand how to simulate their environment sufficiently that their biology will do the rest for us.

I really don't know just how to convey adequately the challenge this species of discus presents to aquarists who would breed them. They are the final frontier of the discus fanciers' world.

Larry Waybright

[tatore]

Just thank you, Heiko, I've understood lots of things since we met the first time.
If discus have a correct literature as a right support for enthusiasts and breeders is for your book(s).
At 40 I decided to take back to study Biology and now I'm busy until September (I have to study lots of books)-
Curiosity and interest started from the wonderful world of discus and aquaria-
Hope to read your pages and translate for you in italian.

Thank You Heiko.

Thank You Larry for your kind words.

[kaceyo]

Thanks Heiko for your insight into heckle breeding. Always informative and enjoyable to read.
Larry,
Good luck on your new discus endeavors. Hopefully you will be able eventually to add your name to the short list of heckle breeders.

Kacey