Microscopes in the fish room

[Apistomaster]

I open this new thread for discussions about the microscopic world of aquaristics and discus keeping.
Their utility as a fish room tool is well established.
Why take shots in the dark when treating diseases when the offending organism is easily identified under a low power microscope setting. If you can't see the bugs then you probably have been cursed with one for which no effective treatments exists. This is sad but true.

Furthermore, studying the embryological development of fish eggs is one of the most fascinating of nature's wonders. Watching the organs,eyes,heart develop, then watching the heart pumping blood through the veins is a sight to be seen. No special equipment is needed and all these things are best viewed at lower power settings.

I have gone through three microscopes in the past 40 years, the last two have been powerful instruments that take one to the absolute limits possible in the visible light spectrum. Still, I use the lowest powers the most. Most parasites are relatively large.

If you keep and raise fish requiring infusoria as their first foods a quick check of your culture under the scope will quickly tell you of it's suitability for use as found instead of pouring a bacterial fry killing soup into your fry tank.

I hope that this thread will fill with information helpful to us all. There is so much more to see than the naked eye can reveal.

Larry Waybright

[Squiggy]

Good post, Graham, Larry...

[Darren's Discus]

Very informative post,well done.

cheers

[Apistomaster]

Graham,
Most excellent photomicrographs. Getting the adapter is my next step.
The Trichodina brings back recent bad memories. I received a shipment of 18 plecos, L204, L333, and L66 absolutely covered with them. As I'm sure you are aware, if it is that advanced on an armoured catfish, things are bad.
I barely saved half of them but at least I knew what I was up against.

Larry W.

[brewmaster15]

Good thread guys,
Maybe some additional info on your parts would be helpful.. For those of you that use a microscope whats the make and model of it? How long have you had it and how often do you use it?

What parasites have you successfully identified with it and how did you collect and prepare the specimens., Lastly... how did you use that knowledge to treat the problem.

Thanks,
al

[moik]

Hello, can you make this thread a Sticky. The pictures are unbelievable. You guys are making me buy a microscope.Please suggest a make and model of a microscope, and what power. Thanks again.

[PDX-PLT]

For those of you that use a microscope whats the make and model of it? How long have you had it and how often do you use it?

I did alot of research before Xmas, as my son told me what he wanted most was a "real" microscope. I also thought it would be a very useful thing to have around, so I was willing to spend a little bit of cash to get a decent one.

As I'm sure most people know, there are tons of "children's microscopes" available, in complete "kits" and sub-$100. These are nothing but toys - plastic lens, plastic bodies, and yield essentially unusable images.

Also stay away from low-priced electronic 'scopes that hook up to your computer - the CCD imager is low resolution, and once again you get toy optics.

For not too much over $100 you can get into the lowest level of "real" microscopes, the so-called "hobbyist" or "student" range. These will have color-corrected glass lenses that are paracentered and parafocal (i.e., when you switch objective lenses, they will be looking at the same spot, and focussing will be about the same). Pay a little more, and you get standard DIN-sized lenses, so that if you need to replace one down the road, it is a standard size.

Next step up is "classroom" use, intended to be used in high schools. That's the type I settled on. We got the LW model Observer III from these folks: http://www.greatscopes.com/obs.htm. It only has three objectives, but does have space on the turret for an objective so we can upgrade to 1000x, plus it has a light condensor that will support the use of that lens (not all condensors will). At $219, the price was right for a very high-quality scope. Aside from the additional objective, things llike binocular eyepieces and add-on mechanical stages can be bought as options.

At this level, you get a useful instrument that yields sharp, clear images. See post http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=56117 for some snapshots I took by holding my digital camera up to the eyepiece; the images visible when looking directly with my eye are much sharper.

I really didn't pay much attention to 'scopes at higher levels, although there seems to be a "medical school student" level at around $400-$500, and "research grade" 'scopes that reach into the thousands, with super-expensive optics that have essentially no distortion anywhere throughout their field of view.

One caveat I ran across is to be wary of used school lab 'scopes. These often have had alot of rough handling over the years, and may have suffered from the abuse.

[D discus]

Al. My first scope was purchased at JC Penney Outlet customer returns 1200 max power toy with a fiew slips, $3. You don't need that much power to view the critters! My Bible "TFH Fish Diseases by Gottfried Schubert". Any New Fish are Quarenteened and feces checked. or if there is a Death Autopsy. When feces clear nothing motile and skin and gill smear clear ( after a month) I put the scope away! My new toy 1200 power TASCO purchased complete kit @Ocean State Job Lots $5. This toy usually sells for $40 new!

[Alight]

https://www2.carolina.com/webapp/wcs...bottom=Y&top=N

Check out the link above for prices on "real" microscopes.
The cadet scope would be more than adequate for any of the observations shown in this thread.

OK, now the disclaimer.
I use all kinds of sophisticated microscopes at work from top research optical scopes to confocal and electron microscopes.

Yet, I've never used one to diagnose a Discus disease. I guess I'm just not curious enough to really find out what really goes on.

I rarely treat my Discus for anything, except when I first get them, when I treat prophylactically for nematodes and tapeworms.

The only other time I've treated is for serious wounds (don't need a microscope to see those) and for gill flukes in 1-2 inch discus fry. The times I've treated with Prazi for gill flukes in fry, I never proved the existence of flukes, but the treatment produced rather dramatic effects in making sick fry better, and preventing more fry deaths. I suspect that all of my adult Discus have gill flukes, but that these are controlled by the fish's own immune defense system.

I guess, I'm of the mind that if I treat my fish well, keep them healthy, feed them well, and keep the water very clean, they can shrug off most common parasites and diseases.

I've observed nearly every kind of microscopic plant and animal as well as nearly every cell and parts of cells in animals and humans with nearly every kind of stain, in situ hybridization and immunocytochemical label.

Really fun stuff! I really do encourage those who have not observed protozoa to do it!

But, it's what I do for a living, while Discus I do for fun! Besides, the scopes I have are very heavy and take up lots of room and would be a pain to transport home for observation--plus the U would probably not be too happy if I made off with one of the scopes!
(LOL--of course I could always bring in a slide of some scrapings!)

[Apistomaster]

My first microscope was a TASCO 1200X for Xmas 4TH grade/

Second one, American Optical 1000X monocular, all the bells and whistles bought from a physcian's estate sale $100. One of the best buys of my life.

Last one Vital Sine Binocular Scope 1000X for $339
www.aquaticeco.com catalog No. M77
Has everything a hobbyist will ever need. Not a toy.

From there plan on spending $700 to $1400 for something better, at least.

Larry W.

[Rod]

I use a tasco xs-912 with up to 1600x magnification. As i am a wholesaler of tropical fish and breeder i use my scope regularly. I'm not very fond of chemical treatments to cure fish so too me it is important that i know exactly what i am treating for and when i have killed the disease organism. Scopes are dead easy to use once you get a feel for it, and also a lot of fun.

[chinapetfish]

Thanks your thread.

[bonifacelan]

WoW! thank you sir Graham for the slides.

[Eyal]

excellent thread
So , What is good magnification to see the common parasite such :
HEX , Cappilaria etc... ?

[discus bob]

SD ever consider a picture gallery where folks can submit there microscope pictures of these nasty critters. There seems to a small surge in interest there.