Spawning Heckle Question

[Apistomaster]

Give me a PM on where and from how and i will bay all f1 heckels any of you can produce.

Hi Goran,
That's a good one. Prepare for the deafening roar of silence.

[wgtaylor]

Here is a direct quote from JimmyL, extracted from Discus As A Hobby web site. If this helps anyone that's great. If you want more information or pictures you will have to contact JimmyL. He appears to be very helpful. Bill
Quote

It's hard to say....Depending on where your Heckle's came from. I bred the Nuhmunda Heckels at Ph-4.5 and the Medeiras at 6.8 they varies in different regions. Blue face is harder to breed too. They all need low conductivity as low as 60 microseimen. Ph crash is very easy. I always use a central system with large volume 10 x 30gallon tanks in series with total capacity of 300 gallons to keep ph stable. I first isolate the breeder with no water change and let the Ph drop by itself until they have spawning activity and lock it there by join in the breeding tank with the central system at the same PH to keep it stable. You have to find your own range.
Jimmy

[ShinShin]

Larry,

Reading Heikos's post, it is obvious he is confused as he addresses both of us, using both our names as if we are the same person. As I said, "perhaps" which means - possibaly, but not certainly; maybe - taken directly from a dictionary. Perhaps implies nothing, and implicates nothing, so lighten up. However, Heiko is correct in a couple of references that he made about you.

You did claim on another forum that you were the first to breed wild discus. Not the first in a certain area, but the FIRST. You had those poor fools thinking you were Jack Wattley's mentor. I read the posts. Someone here gave me the link to it so that I could read it. So denying that only makes you look worse. The black reference discus Heiko mentioned can be found on this forum if someone cares to search it out. You in fact did refer to a picture in his book.

Now, I have spoken to a couple of people who make money breeding, buying, and selling discus. There is NO market worth exlpoiting in tank raised Heckel discus or their crosses. None. PERIOD. You are correct in that Japan dealers pay top dollar for wild Heckels, as they do for wild RSG's, wild red eyed Curiperas, and other red type wild discus. They don't pay this for domestics, Heckels or otherwise.

We've been through this before. You and Heiko claiming quite incorrectly that Asian breeders have not mastered the Heckel. You were given names and books to reference. Call Ray Kosaka yourself. He's listed in Honolulu. Call Yeng in Malaysia, Nura Discus. Hell, there was some kid in Portland, Oregon who used to import and sell discus. He had a tankful of them and couldn't make any money on them. I personally saw a large tank of them myself. Contact Ken Davis, fish farm usa. He had been selling them the last couple of months on Aquabid.com. If they are that much in demand, why did it talk so long to get rid of a spawn? Call him. He's in Georgia. He imports fish for resale. Look under cichlids on AB. He's always there, or I'll personally help you contact him. But, by you contacting these people, your delusion will be killed.

I personally have no interest in this thread. Had not Heiko mentioned me, I would not have even given it a look. Someone gave me a heads-up about it. So, you live in your little world of whatever it is, and Heiko can go on being all about Heiko, as he always is. Okay?

Mat

[plecocicho]

Post pics that prove your wiev.And claim, that NO ONE would not buy f1 true discus is WRONG. If no one would buy f1 or f2, etc wild discus strain, why are there so many breders, that sell F1,F2,F3,etc offsprings?

[Apistomaster]

Ken's fish Farm has had some really pretty Heckel hybrids for sale for some time and they are very tempting fish. But hybrids aren't purebreds which is what the Heckel project is all about.

Heckel Discus and Altum Angels share much in common regarding the murky circumstances surrounding accounts of their captive breeding as well as both species being somewhat extremophiles with regard to their preferred environmental conditions.

Both represent extremely worthy challenges for the skilled breeders in the world who are interested in them. We will let the marketplace decide whether their progeny will have any monetary value, as it always does. I do know that many of us who prefer wild caught discus would be willing to find aquarium space for some TR Heckels just as we have for F1 Blues and Greens. It's pretty nice to get an opportunity to get essentially wild specimens that have been raised in captivity which are free of the usual parasites.

Obviously there are many of us discus lovers who prefer wild type fish over domesticated strains but I'm sure we will always be in the minority.
Domestics will continue rule the discus market for the foreseeable future.

In the final analysis what matters is the fish and not the personalities of the Discus specialist.

[ShinShin]

Larry,

Ken Davis, Fish Farms USA, had F1 Heckel for sale on Aquabid.com. He spawned and raised the fish himself, wild Heckel to wild Heckel. These fish were on AB for awhile. They did not move that quickly, obviously, as they passed through several times. He posted his accomplishment here, I believe. Perhaps I read it on the NADA forum.

I am not necessarily talking Heckel to Heckel in my other comments. Heiko insists that hybrids are not common, as you yourself have also said. I am saying you both are wrong, that in fact, they were quite common in Asia, but because of the lack profit due to the lack of interest, not many are raising selling them. As far as what the Heckel project is all about, it about whatever we want it to be, not what you say it is.

Plecocicho,

I offered you sources to see pics and actually speak to people. There are pics in the sponsors section.If you are truly interested in discus, do some of the work to know, don't depend on me to do it for you. I said nothing of people not interested in F1 wild discus in general. I said that there is no money in F1 Heckels. Heckels have a very narrow band of followers, and in fact, are the least popular discus sold in the USA. All you need to do to find that statement's truth is to talk to some wholesalers and retailers.

Mat

[Apistomaster]

Zzzzz. wake me up when someone who has has first had experience breeding wild discus begins posting.

[brewmaster15]

Zzzzz. wake me up when someone who has has first had experience breeding wild discus begins posting.

wake up then! and smell the egos Burning. ...this is accomplishing nothing.

Enough... If we spent half the time exploring the similarities and differences between heckels, and non-heckel and documenting them with FACTs... as we do on bragging rights and personal OPINIONS stated as facts about what others have done and not done there might actually be some F1's availible in the near future...

Bill,(wgtaylor)...thanks for the constructive facts and info.... thanks also to everyone else for your positive contributions and civil replies.

This Threads locked pending a cooling off period to be determined....

-al