Which is a better clean up crew?

[FishLover888]

I have 2 albino BN cat fish and 6 sterbia cories in my discus tank. The cories clean up after the food left by discus and the BN cat fish keep my tank glass clean. It worked out well.

The sterbai and Albino BN are fund to watch too.

[tpl*co]

Wow, I got my sterbai for about $7.50 a piece. It might be cheaper for Marie to go buy you some and ship them to you. Mine were kinda small when I got them but they have become pretty big and healthy. They do love to hang out together. I have 6 BN plecos in there growing. I will wait till they get older and larger before they go into the discus tank.

Did you get any photo in the mail for the stop light?

Tina

[White Worm]

I never got anything in the mail....whew! Thank goodness! Because my wife works dispatch for our local police dept, our vehicle registrations comes back as Suisun Police Dept when ran through DMV. Maybe they saw that and let it slide. Maybe there was no film in the camera. My wifes cousin works dispatch in woodland and she says that sometimes they dont have film in the cameras and it is just to scare people. It sure put a scare into me after I saw the possible fines. I am very careful when it comes to red lights in Sac now.

[kmuda]

I'm not trying to stir the pot, but feel a need to voice my 2 cents worth, and I have not seen this option recommended yet.

IMHO, the best "clean up crew" is a siphon hose, an algae pad, and the human arm.

If the object is to maintain optimal water quality, every fish you add to the tank results in an increased bioload, therefore higher nitrate. Food you vacuum from the tank via a siphon hose does not. Better yet, there should be no uneaten food available for a "cleanup crew". If there is, you are potentially overfeeding. So by adding a "cleanup crew" you are actually required to feed more, with the results again being increased nitrate.

If you like cories and other fish commonly assigned the "cleanup crew" moniker, by all means, add them to your stocking list, but I don't believe you do so because you feel that a clean up crew is a necessity.

[traco]

I agree. I do daily water changes on this tank, wiping down floor, walls, etc... Filters are cleaned regularly. I don't overfeed either. My BH meal is when I do the water changes, messy food but the discus love it! I wanted to add some crew to come along at feeding time and clean up the smaller food particles.

[White Worm]

I'm not trying to stir the pot, but feel a need to voice my 2 cents worth, and I have not seen this option recommended yet.

IMHO, the best "clean up crew" is a siphon hose, an algae pad, and the human arm.

If the object is to maintain optimal water quality, every fish you add to the tank results in an increased bioload, therefore higher nitrate. Food you vacuum from the tank via a siphon hose does not. Better yet, there should be no uneaten food available for a "cleanup crew". If there is, you are potentially overfeeding. So by adding a "cleanup crew" you are actually required to feed more, with the results again being increased nitrate.

If you like cories and other fish commonly assigned the "cleanup crew" moniker, by all means, add them to your stocking list, but I don't believe you do so because you feel that a clean up crew is a necessity.

Must be nice to have the time to vacuum after every meal So, that would mean with fry, you would be vacuuming 5-8 times a day, 35-56 times a week to get the particles they dont eat? There is nothing wrong with adding extra fish because your filter / bio will build to accomodate and we already do the water changes required to keep nates in check. I think there will always be some food left over or un-eaten because you can never accurately calculate the exact amount of food that will be eaten. With small stomachs, they will eat and then graze which makes it very hard to know how much to feed sometimes. Then, one might not feel well or two may be thinking of other things beyond food. Too many variables and a group of cleaners is a good thing for any tank especially if you have a life beyond your aquarium.

[kmuda]

I simply mentioned another way of doing things. But I do have difficulty understanding how a "clean up crew" does anything to improve water quality. The consumption of excess food by a clean up crew will eventually be converted into ammonia by the fish, or expelled as poo, at which point heterotrophic bacteria is going to break down the poo into dissolved organics (such as phosphate) and more ammonia... all of which results in increased levels of nitrate, phosphate, and other dissolved organics. The same thing will happen to uneaten food left in the tank. The difference is that it takes a longer period of time for heterotrophic bacteria to break the uneaten food down into ammonia and dissolved organics than it does for the clean up crew (which will release about 30% of their body weight in ammonia per day). So the way I see it the only way to prevent uneaten food from impacting water quality is to remove it via a siphon, and a once daily go over, especially in a bare bottom or sand substrate tank, should be more than sufficient as it will take much longer than that for the bacteria to break it down.

My point is that if you are buying Corys, or other “clean up fish”, thinking you are improving your water quality, you are not. If you buy them thinking it will lessen water change requirements or maintenance requirements, they will not. If anything, they will increase the necessity of performing water changes or the amount of water needing changed, especially when you consider that it is only right to be adding "extra" food into the tank to ensure the "clean up crew" gets enough to eat.

All of that said, Corys are wonderful fish. I have them in my Angelfish community tank but I do not have them (yet) in my Discus tank. I have them because I enjoy their antics and think they make an attractive and active addition, not because I feel a need for clean-up crew. I consider myself the "clean up crew".

[swinters66]

I'd put both cories and a BN pleco. I love cories. I have 3 spotted cories and one albino...and they all swim together. I am planning on getting more cories...they do look better and school more when you have more than 3-4. Plus IMO you cant have too many bottom feeders. I keep gravel in my tanks...so the cories help out a lot with keeping things cleaner in the tank.

[White Worm]

I've got my seven juveniles in a bare bottom 65 gallon tank. I wanted to know which would be a better clean up crew, cories or a BN pleco? I've got 2 cories that can go in there, no sand or substrate fine for them (I know they like to burrow along through the substrate searching for food)? And I know plecos create a lot of waste themselves.

Thanks.

I agree. I do daily water changes on this tank, wiping down floor, walls, etc... Filters are cleaned regularly. I don't overfeed either. My BH meal is when I do the water changes, messy food but the discus love it! I wanted to add some crew to come along at feeding time and clean up the smaller food particles.

I simply mentioned another way of doing things. But I do have difficulty understanding how a "clean up crew" does anything to improve water quality. The consumption of excess food by a clean up crew will eventually be converted into ammonia by the fish, or expelled as poo, at which point heterotrophic bacteria is going to break down the poo into dissolved organics (such as phosphate) and more ammonia... all of which results in increased levels of nitrate, phosphate, and other dissolved organics. The same thing will happen to uneaten food left in the tank. The difference is that it takes a longer period of time for heterotrophic bacteria to break the uneaten food down into ammonia and dissolved organics than it does for the clean up crew (which will release about 30% of their body weight in ammonia per day). So the way I see it the only way to prevent uneaten food from impacting water quality is to remove it via a siphon, and a once daily go over, especially in a bare bottom or sand substrate tank, should be more than sufficient as it will take much longer than that for the bacteria to break it down.


All of that said, Corys are wonderful fish. I have them in my Angelfish community tank but I do not have them (yet) in my Discus tank. I have them because I enjoy their antics and think they make an attractive and active addition, not because I feel a need for clean-up crew. I consider myself the "clean up crew".

I think maybe you are getting off of the original question. I dont see where she was trying to improve water quality Notice the Bold, She also already takes care of the build up you are talking about with daily water changes and a good wipe down. Never hurts to have a little help on the clean up crew and I too enjoy the activity of the Cory's.

[traco]

One thing I noticed in my other tank was the six albino cories swam all together and these two other cories stayed together and didn't really mix with the other cories. Is that something that is normal? So if I want to have more for a school, best to get the same type?

[traco]

These are the two I put in the juvenile tank. Corydoras trilineatus

[kmuda]

My apologies if I went off-topic. I "assumed" she wanted a clean up crew to eat left over bits of food in order to minimize water quality impacts resulting from the excess. Perhaps I was wrong, after all, you know what they say about “assume”.

[traco]

That's okay. I do hope I am keeping my tank clean with the water changes, well, I know I am keeping the tank clean or the discus would be telling me otherwise.

I went from "oh look at all the replies and help people are giving me" to "oh dear, I didn't want to start big debates".

[kmuda]

Again, I apologize. I did not intend to start a big debate either. Just something I deal with frequently, folks thinking that "clean up fish" are a necessity and adding them to a tank already too heavily stocked thinking they provide a benefit that they do not.

So whenever I see the phrase "clean up fish" I get a little whacko.

[ed8t]

One thing I noticed in my other tank was the six albino cories swam all together and these two other cories stayed together and didn't really mix with the other cories. Is that something that is normal? So if I want to have more for a school, best to get the same type?

I have 4 corydoras trilineatus with my pandas, they mingle quite well but if they're napping they do tend to look for their own kind. ahem, $4.99 ea @ NA Pets if you're thinking of picking some up on your road trip through the lower mainland. They're sold as julii's.

A friend of mine picked up some Albino bn from Patrick, prettiest & cutest bn cats I've ever seen, plan to pick some up real soon!