Brew' heckels

[pinkertd]

Hi Al,

Beautiful beautiful fish!! Thanks for posting pics and sharing. 20 years ago and before the age of the info-internet... this is what you'd find occasionally in a fish shop. Sick of course, not healthy like yours, but mysteriously beautiful enough to steal your heart....and of course I had to buy them only to have the heartache of them dying. Gonna get me some wilds one day so best spawning wishes to them!!

[brewmaster15]

Hi Larry,
I really don't treat the heckels any different than my other wilds and domestics...I've always done this..... I think that theres a large amount of mystery surrounding the Heckels that lends itself to many myths.

On the soft acidic water....I don't think any discus "need" it to thrive..... I think clean, stable, and low bioload water is most important......but I do think that both domestic and wilds benefit from acidic soft water greatly in many ways.... Its only natural since thats what they evolved in... we certainly won't hurt a wild discus or heckel with it... but I have found my well water to work just fine for me. I'm sure thats not something that can be said for everyone as theres a tremendous range of waters out there....but here....well water is fine.

My water changes on the 75 gal tanks....are about 30% daily.. these tanks have between 7-9 heckels, and consist of 2-3 hydro 4 and 5's as well as a aquaclear 110 power filter....The tanks often house a couple wild bristlenose plecos... Of note... my kH here is less than 1 and so its not unusual for my pH to drift down over time...especially in the driftwood tanks....when this happens...I usually follow up with a large water change of 50-80%.

deworming...when I first get wilds in I treat them with prazi for tape worms and flukes.....Next I treat externally with quick cure for a week, last I treat as a bath with a broad spectrum dewormer.... Levamisole is my choice these days... but I have also used flubendazole when I have it. I will use panacur(fenbendazole) in food mixes....and if a wild comes in really looking bad...I sometimes will gavage( tube in ) panacur...

I generally deworm initially...follow up 2-3 weeks latter and then not again unless I suspect a problem.....

Behaviorally... I have found the young heckels to be a timid group, but once they start to grow and mature..they are every bit as much a "discus" as their non-heckel counterparts..... I also want to add that I have found they really do just as well with other wilds and domestics....


These are just my observations though, others I am sure will differ.

Thanks,
al

[senso]

Since I have recently seen these fish, I can assert that although Al's photos are good, these fish are even nicer in the real flesh.
The interesting thing to me was the eyes - clear and bright. If one compares the photos of other heckels posted on this site, you will see a dramatic difference in eye color and clarity. Some appear dark and opaque.
Can anyone explain the reason for this? Is it water conditions?

[Apistomaster]

I know that photos of my Heckels taken with my point and shoot Olympus SP-320 digital camera show a lot of flash bounce in their eyes. It can make them appear as though their eyes aren't clear. When a friend of mine uses his Nikon DSLR their eyes appear natural. Sometimes it's easy to see whether the fish are healthy by seeing how thick they are.

I'm not an expert on photography but I think because there is so little parallax with point and shoot's flash and lense compared to the Nikon set up which is also using a strong flash and longer telephoto lenses there isn't that direct bounce back from the eyes. Basically a $300 camera can't compete with a $1500 camera/lense combo. Especially when he uses slave flash coming in at all the right angles. Then the photos really show off the fish well.

As Al has mentioned, healthy discus have clear eyes but just as "red eye" is an artifact of flash and blood vessels on the retina so can the difference one can see in Discus photos. It is a photographic problem that is greater in my Heckel photos than all other types of discus I've photographed. It just disappears with better equipment than I own.
Heckel eye colors are quite variable also, depending on which population they are from. Some have very red eyes while others may have darker eyes. In Bleher's Discus Vol. 1, one can observe a wide range of eye colors among fish that have been photographed immediately after capture.

Fortunately the Heckels see fine and who knows, one of these days we will get some successful spawns? That's the goal.
Al's Heckels are happy, healthy and beautiful.
It is hard to pick favorites when it comes to wild Discus but the Heckel is a special species for some of us.

[Polar_Bear]

I know that photos of my Heckels taken with my point and shoot Olympus SP-320 digital camera show a lot of flash bounce in their eyes. It can make them appear as though their eyes aren't clear. When a friend of mine uses his Nikon DSLR their eyes appear natural. Sometimes it's easy to see whether the fish are healthy by seeing how thick they are.

I'm not an expert on photography but I think because there is so little parallax with point and shoot's flash and lense compared to the Nikon set up which is also using a strong flash and longer telephoto lenses there isn't that direct bounce back from the eyes. Basically a $300 camera can't compete with a $1500 camera/lense combo. Especially when he uses slave flash coming in at all the right angles. Then the photos really show off the fish well.

As Al has mentioned, healthy discus have clear eyes but just as "red eye" is an artifact of flash and blood vessels on the retina so can the difference one can see in Discus photos. It is a photographic problem that is greater in my Heckel photos than all other types of discus I've photographed. It just disappears with better equipment than I own.
Heckel eye colors are quite vaariable also, depending on which population they are from. Some have very red eyes while others may have darker eyes. In Bleher's Discus Vol. 1, one can observe a wide range of eye colors among fish that have been photographed immediately after capture.

Fortunately the Heckels see fine and who knows, one of these days we will get some successful spawns? That's the goal.
Al's Heckels are happy, healthy and beautiful.
It is hard to pick favorites when it comes to wild Discus but the Heckel is a special species for some of us.

I agree with this. I know my Heckels all have nice red, clear eyes, but you could never tell that from my photos.

[Apistomaster]

Hi polarbear,
It's really frustrating isn't it? Other discus' eyes usually show up true to life in photos but capturing the Heckel in it's perfection is extraordinarily difficult challenge.

I guess as long as they are looking good in our care that is reward enough.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Larry and Larry,
Not sure why you have difficulty with the heckel photos but I suspect its lighting.... the flash on the camera and the tank itself (dark Substrates can fool sensors and flashes are not as effective as in a light substrate.). Heckels really arent any different than any other discus with regards to the way they photograph, Imo. Theres probably a practice factor in there...photography is a hobby of mine.

on my digital camera... Its really nothing special...its an old Nikon point and shoot 4500 series camera.... 4 megapixels. most newer cameras in the $200 range probably have better imaging and flash systems as the techology has improved so much since I bought it.

Anyhow,
Thank you both for your comments!

-al

[senso]

Thanks everyone. btw, Apistomaster, your group looks great.
To rephrase my question rather than offending anyone's fish or photography, are eyes a good indicator of health. I have seen discus with opaqueness and dark eyes, what does this indicate if anything.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Rossano,

. I have seen discus with opaqueness and dark eyes, what does this indicate if anything.

yes I believe it does. It often means the discus are not healthy. I have seen it more often in wilds and its almost always accompanied by high bioloads in the water....clean water low bioloads and the fish lose that opaqueness. A Fishes eyes should never be opaque and dull..they should be clear and bright.


I have no proof, but suspect its largely due to bacteria ....too much bacteria and possible a subsequent immune response....thats just a guess.

-al

[senso]

Al

There have been times that I have noted the eyes in one of my wilds is a little opaque, and then a few hours later clear and bright. The opaqueness is often associated with a change in skin coloration (dull, blackish).

My thought that with adult wilds, if there is any courting, territory fighting or elements of aggression, some of the fish tend to change color completely, largely as a defense reaction.

Interestingly, photography at times brings this on too.

[Ed13]

LOl, you guys are too much!

weekends coming up so I will try and take some more pics then.

Thanks everyone for the comments on my heckels..

-al

Me thinks the weekend is here

[brewmaster15]

Lol Ed,

Notice I didn't say which weekend was coming up.

-al

ps...I'll see what I can do, I got busy unexpectedly.

[FishyMatty]

I spent a few hours in brews fish room today and his heckels are the most beautiful fish I've ever seen. He has some paired with domestics and he even has a a full tank of 1" fry from a heckel/domestic broom. Brewmaster is honestly amazing.

[Ed13]

Lol Ed,

Notice I didn't say which weekend was coming up.

-al

ps...I'll see what I can do, I got busy unexpectedly.

Are we there yet????!

[Condor]

Fantastic thread, Al. Really beautiful fish.

Adrian