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Carol does an excellent work here.
You can't go wrong doing this method.
http://www.discusnada.org/
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How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
Please don't mind if I edit this post to put accross how I dose PP. I wanted to start this thread to eliminate the fear of using PP. Yes I have killed fish with PP so maybe I should start by saying how I did it. It always happened when I thought I was too smart and knew what I was doing. If I had exercised just a little caution none of it would have happenned! The key when dosing PP is to make sure you are around for 2 to 3 hours after you dose. Or atleast, u remember to check in on ur discus during the 1st 3 hours. If you can do that I think there is zero chance that you will ever be in trouble using PP. I can think of a lot of meds where it's not so obvious that u've done something wrong. If you overdose ur fish will quickly tell you and reversing it not that difficult. Okay what did I do?
(1) I dosed PP and went out! (bad move)
(2) I dosed PP and went to bed! (very bad move)
(3) I dosed PP when my fish had cuts and leisions (bad move)
(4) I dosed PP on fish that had lost their slime coat (new arrivals)
Don't do these four things and watch the color! PP is one of the most useful chemicals in the discus hobby in my opinion! Okay you want to know why ?
(1) Discus eat too much, sh*t too much
(2) We feed them beefheart/shrimp
(3) Our main filtration is waterchange
PP is an oxidizer (okay don't get technical on me, I'm trying to keep it simple)It oxidizes any organic matter that is in the water, on the surfaces, in the filter. I call it the slime remover! It's also a sterilizer (my grandmother used it to wash fruits), it kills bacteria. It also kills parasites(external ones), Sometimes I think of it as a "gill cleaner"
What dose is best? I really don't know the answer. The stronger the better! I have seen planeria get up from the bottom of the tank and start swimming again with a light dose so sometimes I just vacuum the bottom while the tank is still purple so when they get up they're swimming down the toilet! No I don't have planeria in my systems now but I used to
What about my filter? Won't I kill all the bacteria, then I'll be cycling my tank again? I'm someone who changes water daily and there was a time I did PP treat every month. Never did I ever experience "new tank" syndrome as a result of PP treatment. In my opinion, nitryfying bactera are quite resilient and so long as you change water with some frequency I don't think this is an issue. Like I said I never had new tank syndrome even when I PP'd my tanks monthly.
Is PP harmful with prolonged use? I didn't used to think so but now I do. But I do not know the cutoff point. I try not to use it very often, once in a while use is best. It is my opinion that frequent PP use will cause gill defects and possibly damage organs. I can't back that up though! Only that it is something I believe from seeing changes in my own discus who were frequently treated.
Okay, one last word
How do I dose PP? By color! Okay jump all over me but that's what I do
I do not use a stock solution. I have this salt shaker with PP powder. I put a couple of sprinkles and then stir up the water with my hand. Then I look at the color to see how the color looks. Then I sprinkle a little more. My objective is to get the color like in the 2nd glass but not as dark as the 1st glass. I go slow and in about 2 min I have achieved the color.
You have to remember that it will get a bit darker in about 10 min than in the 1st 2 min because there is a bit that still hasn't desolved but I don't think that makes much of a difference. If I get the color as dark as the 1st glass, I make sure I add an airstone and I watch the discus for signs of stress. If they are not stressed within 1 hr I think I'm okay
Typically I shoot for the color in the 3rd glass or the 4th for light treatment. A light treatment is very useful and totally safe because it cleans the tank real good and reduces the bacterial load on the tank. I always think this is like scrubbing the tank for 2 hrs and oh so much easier!
In 2 or 3 hours the color will change to a brown. This means that the chemical has done it's job. You can remove the brown water with water changes and ur filter will also remove it if left overnight. The brown water is not harmful and there is not a big hurry to remove it. But if the color turns brown very quickly (in less than 1 hr) I would do a repeat dose the next day.
In summary, you can use any method you want to dose but after you have dosed look at the color. If it looks like the color in the 1st glass be careful and watch ur fish. If the color is like it is in the 2nd glass or lighter you have no worries! The rule that was told to me was that "if the color is too dark to see the fish in the back of the tank then you have overdosed".
HTH,
Sandeep
Last edited by Elcid; 07-17-2007 at 01:45 PM.
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
Look for newsletter link on left.
Go to page 12 of the Newsletter.
Carol does an excellent work here.
You can't go wrong doing this method.
http://www.discusnada.org/
http://www.atthegateministries.org/index.html
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
It's much safer and more predictable to make a stock solution with known quantities of water and PP powder. I mix 1.5 grams of PP crystals with 1000ml purified water. This bottle of solution treats a total of 200 gals of water at 2ppm. Or, each 100ml treats 20gals at 2ppm.
This way you can be sure that the dose will have the affect you want and you can adjust the dose to any specific ppm you want very easily.
Kacey
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
Hey Kacey:Originally Posted by kaceyo
Thanks for the tip, I would do it but I don't have any scale that would measure 1.5 grams accurately. Maybe if you have one of those measuring spoon sets you could tell me how much it is approximately??? What color do you see in my pics when you dose at 2 ppm?
Hey, were are those pics?!
take care,
Sandeep
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
Scales are dirt cheap and if nothing else, go up to your local pharmacy and ask them to weigh it out.. dosing by colour is asking for trouble
G
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
Sandeep,
I wouldn't want to hazard a guess about the color since I can dose three tanks with exactly 2ppm but each will look entirly dif shades of purple due to lighting, depth of tank, background color etc.
I got my scale for $15 plus a couple bucks shipping which is well worth it considering all the various meds you can use it for.
FWIW I just weighed a level 1/4 tsp PP, it was 1.9 grams.
HTH,
Kacey
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
Hi Kacey:
Where did you get the scale from? Can you please give more details. thanks for the measurement, I'm going to give it a try and see what the color looks in one of my tanks!
thanks,
Sandeep
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
What are you guys using the PP for? Preventative maintenance or a specific bacteria or parasite?
Dan
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
You can back your pp treat off with peroxide. Then you don't have to worry about trying to wc the brown water out.
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
I had done a PP treat last night in one of my tanks! Wow the water was so crystal clear this morning, the floss in my filter took out all the brown stuff
Dan, I use PP mostly for tank maintainance (cleaning), of course it also does a job on bacteria and parasites. I haven't had to dose at near the leathal limit to kill some bad bug.
HTH,
Sandeep
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
Where do you buy this stuff? People have told me to go to Sears, but everytime I do, I just get blank stares. I have gone to 3 Sears so far.
Also, I am assuming that you can't use PP in a planted tank?
Thanks!
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
No one will know what you are talking about but it is kept in the water softener area.
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
Hi this is Mike from Blackwater Aquaria. I have a few comments about the use of PO4 first it is a very strong chemical used in water treatment to help with taste and odor problems it also is used to take out metals that are in solution that is where your brown water is from by way of filtration it is absorbed in your filter pads. I have used it in the past for fungus problems other than that I don't see any other use for it.What are you trying to use it for? I also don't think you will find it unless you know someone in your local water dept.Be careful with it if do find it. If you overdose your discus they will quickly become stressed and you could loose the whole tank. Well good luck!
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
Sandeep,
I did a search for gram scales and up came a zillion places that sell them. compair a few prices and designs to see what looks good. Mostly you want one that is accurate to at least 0.1 grams or 0.01g for scales that weigh to 100ths of a gram. Some will measure in many dif units like mg, ounces, grams, carats etc etc.
My scale is a Jennings but there are alot of good names out there.
Kacey
Re: How do you dose Potassium Permanganate (PP)?
Please review link below
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassi...l_applications
.. There are many uses and if you scroll down under Miscellaneous, that is where the aquarist lives. You can and will find it at Sears in the water softener dept. Its in a plain white plastic container and it comes in purple crystal form. If you dont know what you are looking for, you would probably pass right by it and not know. I know because thats where I got mine. It was about 8$ if I recall. The stuff goes a long way. A pinch will get me the color I am looking for (depending on the tank size), peroxide to clear it up and then a large w/c. I shoot for the color between glass 2-3.
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