My Heckles

[Genirous]

Hi Larry,

I don't disagree with Mick B or you (how could I?),
I just meant that heckel discus have chosen their diet in nature and decided what is most suitable for them... And they prefer plant matter, that I can see...

In Athens, when I asked Heiko Bleher if he knew people that bred pure wild heckels, he told me that he knows only one, which followed his advices and managed it. And we didn't talk only for egg-laying, but for succesfully raising juvenilles also...

[Apistomaster]

Giorgos,
We are in agreement. As I mentioned, I have been going to begin experimenting with incorporating much more fruit in the form of dried cranberries and perhaps some blueberries in a few experimental beef heart blends. Beef heart blends are so easy to vary the recipe and I don't use as much heart as many people do. It's just that it is a good vehicle to deliver and disguise new foods that contributes to my use of it. Still, as a percent of their overall diet, beef heart makes up a small portion of my Heckels overall diet. It may prove that a blend consisting of only 20% heart and the rest the vegetable matter, FD Blood worms and earthworm flakes or perhaps the earthworm sticks folding in after blending the heart, CyclopEeze, Spirulina and vitamins would be added during the initial blending of the heart.
At least that's my plan. I'll probably try some banana, too. It might be necessary to add a lot of Ascorbic acid(Vitamin C) to reduce the oxidizing of the banana. Probably dried banana would be the best form to use as a component of a blend.

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi Larry and hi Giorgos,

nice to see the discussion of you all about Heckel's and their nutrition and I naturally say, what I told during my seminars for those fantastic Greek people (I think no nationals can be more hospital than those ancient Troyans... one can also see it in the recent movoe 300, although it is not 100% as the true story), no beef heart.

Unfortunately, as I describe in my volume 1 (and more about this in volume 2), it was kind of "what can we do?" resolution during a cold (freezing) winter night at Schmidt-Focke's house in the 1960s. But anyhow, if Larry and his heckel's go for it and he uses 20% lean beef heart, and most of the remains vegetables, etc., than I am sure it will not harm you Heckel's, as long as they take it.

But Giorgos is for sure right in what he is saying about water parameters etc., you paid well attention during my seminars and/or by reading my book. Thank you.

Final suggestion: PLEASE give those wild Heckel's I have seen photos here, SAND, fine white sand, they need it desperately.

Now all the best and merry Christmas, and a Heckel-healthy new year...

always

Heiko

PS: And thanks to Greece again... you are wonderful people and hopefully we have such an event yearly. And to you Larry, thanks for the recommendation you have send to Husky, he passed them on to me.

[Apistomaster]

Hi Heiko,
It is always good to hear from you.
As you realize, we can, at best, only try to simulate the actual diets of the Heckels or any wild discus for that matter. It will always be imperfect.
I do give mine the white quartz sand and they spend hours sifting it not unlike Geophagines. Here is how they are set up.

[Genirous]

Hi Heiko Bleher,
I need to thank you again for making these seminars come true (with mine/your friend Nidal) and passing so many and valuable information to us! We have made a mini presentation of your seminar here, hope you don't mind us posting few of your slides...
Looking forward to learn from the best (you) again and soon!

I own your book for a little while (it is the one you signed, adressed to ''heckel discus lover''), but I haven't red it so good as Larry has and he knows much of your work.
It was I in the hotel hall passed Larry's words on to you and Husky was there also!

Nice talking to you again,
have a happy new year with health and prosperity,
best and kind regards (and many thanks again) from Athens, Greece

Giorgos Roussalis

[plecocicho]

Many thanks Giorgus for posting a few slides of Heiko's lectures on net. It would be nice once to meet the man himself. I would probably got restraining order from him, because i would like to ask him so many questions not only from Amazon, but all other patrs as well. Working for him as a junior scientific assistant would be quite an andventure, as my hearth lies in field biology.
lp

[blue acara]

Hi Larry and hi Giorgos,

nice to see the discussion of you all about Heckel's and their nutrition and I naturally say, what I told during my seminars for those fantastic Greek people (I think no nationals can be more hospital than those ancient Troyans... one can also see it in the recent movoe 300, although it is not 100% as the true story), no beef heart.

Unfortunately, as I describe in my volume 1 (and more about this in volume 2), it was kind of "what can we do?" resolution during a cold (freezing) winter night at Schmidt-Focke's house in the 1960s. But anyhow, if Larry and his heckel's go for it and he uses 20% lean beef heart, and most of the remains vegetables, etc., than I am sure it will not harm you Heckel's, as long as they take it.

But Giorgos is for sure right in what he is saying about water parameters etc., you paid well attention during my seminars and/or by reading my book. Thank you.

Final suggestion: PLEASE give those wild Heckel's I have seen photos here, SAND, fine white sand, they need it desperately.

Now all the best and merry Christmas, and a Heckel-healthy new year...

always

Heiko

PS: And thanks to Greece again... you are wonderful people and hopefully we have such an event yearly. And to you Larry, thanks for the recommendation you have send to Husky, he passed them on to me.

Hi Heiko, thank you for your input. Any reason why you suggest white sand over a darker sand?

Yesterday I added a thin layer of white sand, they seem to enjoy eating from it. It has caused a color change in them straight away. They are a lighter color, mostly due to the light reflecting from the white sand I think. The lines on the fish appear less blue and more white.

I hope Larry doesn't mind me posting his picture of his Heckels.

You can see the color difference between this pic and Larrys full tank shot above. Were you using a dark substrate in the tank for this picture Larry?

One pic of my Heckels before sand was added- The lines are starting to develop.

[bavaria36]

Does the addition of a layer of sand at the bottom of these tanks create problems with cleaning the bottom ? I have recently moved my wilds to a BB tank from a planted tank and judging by the amount
of dirt I siphon off the bottom twice a day I am amazed that the fish survived that long in the planted tank. Even siphoning up the dirt is not enough. I need to really clean the bottom well with a brush every couple of days otherwise the water starts to cloud up.

I just got my hands on a 120 gallon that I plan to set up for Heckels so I need to decide whether to go BB and add the white sand as recommended in these posts.

Aaron

[blue acara]

Cleaning the sand is Ok. Most of the feces still collects in the same place in the tank and is easy to siphon off. They do produce a lot of waste.

[Göran Ekholm]

Some of mine ph 3,8 and 50 micosemens a pate whit sand where i feed theem whit a lot of fruits mixt whit a granulated food calld ALLER 500 Strawberrys are the favorits.

[blue acara]

Goran they are looking good! How are you making the ph 3.8?
How do you mix the granulated food and fruit?

[Göran Ekholm]

I put the fruits in the mixer and the granulat, mix and blend at all till you get the right consitens. I have traid meny typs of fruit, but me heckels prefer strawberrys. But i give them blueberrys strawberrys kiwi banans and mango. remember too mix itt well before you blend in the granulat.

To get pH 3,8 i let RO water flow constantly over som ting we in Sweden calls Torv it is full of humus and has a very low pH. After that water goes in to tank constantly so the water in the tank will be changd upp to 30% every 24 hovers. A water like this is werry unstabel. So you need too take it carefull. Try it in a system whit no fishs in for a coppel of weeks, so you now how mutch torv you need and howe big waterflo you need. Me RO meaks 150 liter 5 microsemens water every 24h and it goes in to a 450liter akvarium

[blue acara]

Ok thanks Goran- So you blend the fruit and granulated mix them then freeze?

I guess what you call torv we call peat. This is something I will be looking to add to the filter or filter the ro water through it before adding to the tank. I need to look in to it.

Obviously your Discus are looking amazing so your water and food has a part to play in this.

Best pic I have taken so far- Looking good after one month.

[Darren's Discus]

I just had to wipe the floor with all my drool,They look great guys !



cheers

[Apistomaster]

Hi Giorgos,
Yes, The one photo that has the Heckel label was when they were over a dark basalt substrate. The camera flash has a lot to do with how the colors appear and their mood is a factor.
They would stay too dark most of the time over the dark substrate so I changed to the white quartz sand. I like the way they look over the light colored substrate best. Their colors are nicer. The stark white of the photo of the tank doesn't reflect the way it tones down after a little algae forms on it so it isn't as stark but still much lighter than the basalt.
My Sword plants are now almost 20 X 20 X 20 inches and now provide more filtered light and discus look better when they are under filtered or somewhat shaded lighted areas. They are almost purple at times when they are in "dark" phase; red with the blue striations