Specific Questions from a Newb

[danwpc]

Hi Discus Gurus!
I humbly request your vast wealth of knowledge and experience!

I have a few questions regarding my specific situation:

(I have never kept Discus before, hence me=newb)
Tank Info:
Location: London, ON
Life: Running Since 10/25/07
55 Gallon Long (4ft)
Large Canister Filter (Cascade 1000: 265gph)
1x300w Heater @ approx 84deg.
220W PC Light Fixture
5lb Pressurized CO2
Following EI fert dosing
50% WC 1x/week
Relatively heavily planted =P

pH= Approx 7.5
kH= 95
gH= 120
Nitrate = 25
Nitrite = 0
Ammonia = 0

Current Inhabitants: (approx 20 cardinals, 6 Rummy noes, 1 oto, 2 SAE, 3 Cory Sterbai, 1 fem. bristlenoes plec., Amano Shrimp)

Specific Questions

1. What would be the minimum number of discus that would be appropriate for this tank size?
   
2. I have contacted someone who is selling 3 Adult Brown Discus. Given these fish are healthy etc. would they be a good fit for my tank? Are three established tankmates a good choice?
   
3. If not, would I be better off keeping several (how many?) Juvi Turq's (from Barb's estate)
   
4. As I am dosing Nitrates as a fertilizing routine (following EI), is this a concern with keeping discus?
   
5. As I have no discus in my tank (obviously =P) is quarantining the fish still neccessary?
   
6. When introducing the fish, would you recommend the drip method, or if my parameters are satisfactorily close enough, should I just let the temp balance out, and dump'em?

Thank you for your time! Much appreciated!

Dan

[Don Trinko]

I will answer several of your questioins.

1. 55g is good for 5 to 6 discus.

4. 25 nitrates is higher than most people recomend and a planted tank is harder to keep clean but can be done. ( I have fake plants and try to keep nitrates around 5) Don T.

[danwpc]

Cheers Don,

I can likely back down my nitrate dosing to maintain around 10-20. I'll keep that in mind

[KJoFan]

Hi Dan, welcome to Simply.

Sounds like you have a pretty nice setup already. I'm sure I can't answer all your questions but you'll get them answered and people's opinions.

1. Like Don said, 5-6 is a good number for a 55. But, with the fish you already have that might be pushing the load a little. So you could either thin out what you have a bit and go with 5 or 6 or...

2. The adults are the way to go with a planted tank, they'll be better off than the juvies. However, only 3...I'm not sure. They tend to like numbers. Which put me in the conundrum in #1 already. I think your tankmates are fine otherwise and if they are healthy adult discus they'd probably do ok in a planted tank provided you keep up on water changes still.

3. Again, I think your'e better off with adults in a planted tank.

4. I"m not sure on the Nitrates, I know of people that dose ferts, probably N included and seem to be successful. And there are those that keep their discus in a planted tank and their nitrates are up there like yours and don't have issues. Most of us are trained that above 10 or so it's time to get them down. But, that's usually in barebottom tanks so...I'd have to defer to someone with more experience in that dept.

5. Yes QT is still necessary. Even if both sets of fish are healthy they each have different "germs".

6. If the parameters are close, temp included, I'd just plop them in.

[Kindredspirit]

3. Again, I think your'e better off with adults in a planted tank.

Very true. Having said that~ if you are new to keeping Discus, I question the wisdom of starting with adults. Good quality, healthy adults can be expensive ~

Do you have deep pockets?

You may consider starting out with juvies until you gain more experience and feel confident you know what you are doing.

Good luck and welcome to Simply!

[danwpc]

Do you have deep pockets?

You may consider starting out with juvies until you gain more experience and feel confident you know what you are doing.

Good luck and welcome to Simply!

Well you do raise a good point. I would not be able to afford 5-6 Adult discus.

However, the points your raise are somewhat contradicting.

I was under the impression that Adult discus were EASIER to care for? You seem to suggest that they might be more difficult to handle?
Also, I'm looking at 3 Adult Browns for approx $200, versus 5 juvi turqs for approximately ($40x5=$200). True that I would be getting more fish, however, as long as three would be a safe number to keep, than I'd be more than happy to simply have three, easier to keep specimens.

Your thoughts?

[Don Trinko]

While I love brown discus they can be prety plain compaired to the newer varieties.
Adult discus are not ussualy fed as much so they do not produce as much wast. Don T.

[danwpc]

So the only difference is the feeding eh? No difference in terms of hardiness?

I haven't even had a look at these Browns yet. I'll take some pics when I go out there and maybe get some input from you gurus =P

Cheers

[Kindredspirit]

Well you do raise a good point. I would not be able to afford 5-6 Adult discus.

However, the points your raise are somewhat contradicting.

I was under the impression that Adult discus were EASIER to care for? You seem to suggest that they might be more difficult to handle?

Did I? I apologize, Dan! I wanted you to understand that one should know the discus and what to look for, get down what works for you....gain experience....through keeping babies....grow them up ~

Then you may be ready for enjoying adults....they are much easier and require less maintenance....but only......only if you know what you are doing....and are committed to the hobby ~ I think where people go wrong at times is that we look for short cuts in tank housekeeping....big mistake. Huge at times.

Does that explain it a little better?

[GrillMaster]

Hey Dan welcome to "SD"

Heres what I did...I started with planted tanks for a couple of years till I half way knew what I was doin and keeping algae to a bare minimum. By the sound of things with your EI dosing regime you are at that point maybe farther along.

Then I decided I wanted discus. So while maintaining my planted tank, I got a Bare bottom 55G with the bare essentials an grew out some juvies for a couple of years. Then finally combined the two.

Growing juvies is tough in a planted tank for the amount of food they require (4-6 feedings a day) That tends to foul the water pretty fast so water changes are needed each day to counter act the vaste amounts of food and waste. Water changes each day would put a damper on your EI dosing regime for sure!

The object being to raise your discus to thier full potential. For this lots of food and lots of water changes are required.

Adults from a respectable breeder would be the best way to go in a planted tank.

Discus do better in large groups, makes them feel more secure. 5 adults in a 55G planted tank is really on the high end since the plant mass will reduce the the amount of tank space they really require. 3 is a bad number. This has been said over an over. One will wind up just getting bullied all the time an eventually wither away. Left with 2 one of them will ultimately meet the same demise.

A confirmed breeding pair might be an option for you.

IMO get a 55G BB tank an get the joy of growing out your own juvies! You will also see the mess they make!

hth
Mark

[judy]

Hi Dan-- i would suggest a half-dozen juvies in the tank; current inhabitants look like a good match for discus. It is true that there's more maintenance required raising juvies in a planted tank, and your fert sked will have to be revised, because you will without doubt need to change your water by up to fifty percent very frequently-- most on this forum would tell you daily is ideal. I change about a third of the water in my planted 78 gallon, 2 to 3 times a week and feed five times daily, not huge amounts-- they will browse the bottom for half an hour or so to finish up the food.
You may well sacrifice some plant growth to successfully keep the discus, but there is an argument to be made that fewer fertilizers would be compensated for by the nutrient waste generated by these fish as they grow.
I'm finding I no longer need to supplement the water column with anything other than Flourish Excel (I use DIY CO2 so that little addition seems to be needed to give them the extra CO2 boost). Since CO2 lowers Ph anyway, and discus love lower Ph (though the're fine at levels higher than 7.0), that kind of works in favour of a planted tank...
and once they're all growed up-- that tank will be gorgeous.

[Jeff B]

Can I maybe offer a compromise .... what about sub adult ?, 4-5 " or so. Not as demanding as juveniles, you don't pay the prices of adult fish .... and providing they develop properly you stand a good chance of some pairs.

[hexed]

Ok,
Here's my two cents.
First you need to know how old the brown discus are and how long they have been together? I am sorry but if those fish have been together for 2 years and they have not killed each other then they will not. I had 3 discus in one of my tanks with no problems. Marie had 1 discus in her tank for a while as well. Yes you will need to QT any fish before placing in your tank - getting an illness in a planted tank is not so easy to cure.

My first discus were adults and they were way easier to care for then growing out juvis. So my advice is simple - if you have the time (and tank space) to invest in growing out discus then go with it cause the discus would be cheaper but if you do not have the time then get adults (which will cost you more cause someone else paid to grow them out).

[danwpc]

Wow, you guys all raise good points. Thank you so much for you thoughts.

I tend to like what Hexed has to say, simply because he most closely resembles my own sentiments on the subject. =P

I do have limited space/time and...I know you guys will shun this but... as kindred said...I'm looking to take some shortcuts. That having been said, I'd like to think of myself as a conscientious fishkeeper and would never skip any of the fundamental steps/stages to keeping discus.

As many of you have stated, I may run into space issues with having 5-6 juvis in my 55gal. Also, in my current situation, I don't really have the conditions to grow them out over an extended period of time.

I guess if I can summarize your sentiments:

If I had the time/space I'd get 5-6 juvi's, grow them out in a bb tank and have the pleasure of adding them to a larger tank in the future having succesfuly raised them to maturity.

If I want to go with adults, its going to be super expensive, slightly risky as I'm not experienced with discus, yet they will not require as intensive feeding, and therefore less time, and keeping 3 is risk due to bullying, unless they've been together and proven compatible over at least a few...months?.

Sound about right?

[Don Trinko]

Some varieties are more expensive than others. I bought 4 4"+ discus for $50 each but I have also payed $70 ea for 2 to 2 1/2" fish.
I have seen very nice 5" fish for $150 each. I have seen 2 to 2 1/2" fish for $20 each. When you buy young fish you do not know for sure what they will look like when adult, even if you see the parents. When you buy bigger fish you can see defects or lack of defects. The ones with defects will be cheaper. Don T.