Malaysian trumpet snails - pros/cons and control

[baldpate]

I recently took a look in my tank late at night after the lights were off. It's a 125gal heavily planted community tank w/ 10 4-6" discus. It was extremely cool to see all of the activity still going on such as the Amano shrimp, Sterbai cories, Ancistris, Otocinclus, Parotocinclus, and gold mystus cats actively foraging. It was also neat to see my zebra loaches tucked into incredibly small crannies of the driftwood "roosting" and how the cardinal tetras, harlequin rasboras, and others were asleep in dense vegetation. However, the big surprise came when I noticed a snail, then another, and another, and so on until I found 50-100!!! Most were very tiny. I was able to ID them as Malaysian trumpet snails.

I have read a lot of mixed reviews about snails. Interestingly, I noticed over the previous weeks a decline of blue green algae to virtually complete eradication. My tank has never looked so clean and beautiful. Previously, the Otocinclus were eating it off the plants and the Paroticinclus and Amanos ate it off the gravel, but they never completely removed the BGA. I also like that the MTS eat plant detritus and waste food, but do not eat plants. I also simply like the idea of another neat organism to watch in my diverse tank.

However, I have seen tanks overloaded w/ thousands of MTS and heard they can be hard to control without chems. I bought the zebra loaches (Botia striata) for snail control and they took care of my plant eating snails. But, they are much more diurnal than I thought they would be and this trait may explain the colonization by the nocturnal MTS.

Thus, my dilemma. I love the way the tank looks since the MTS colonized it. But, I don't think I want to let them go completely. Is it possible to implement control without eradication? If yes, how would it be executed? I am thinking about getting 3 small clown loaches since they are active at night when the MTS come out. I have also read that one should get at least 3 for them to be happy, especially since happy CL are less likely to interact poorly with discus. I have read mixed reviews about CL comatibility with discus.

Any advice would be appreciated!

[baldpate]

Should I have posted this in General Discussion?

[Danlee]

Hey

Even with the loaches, you will never completely erradicate the MTS.
Some people like them, some go to extreme lengths to erradicate them with very little success.

Some after thinking they are completely gone end up finding some in the filter which spread back into the tank.

So I don't think you'll have a problem with the loaches because they'll keep the MTS under control but will never completely erradicate them.

HTH
Dan

[aquagal]

I bleached my tank and all equipment and they still came back? I think you need to come to peace with the fact that they aren't going anywhere. I DO think they do a pretty good job of cleaning up the crumbs. I would erradicate completely if I could, just don't think it's possible.

[crazie.eddie]

The good thing about MTS, is that they are livebearers. You can pick them off, which is tedious, but eventually, you will probably get them all. Or a simply bleach or PP batch of everything should do it. Most other snails are egglayers, so it would be difficult to eradicate them.

I don't like the look of snails in the tank. I once had some pond snails hitching from some plants I got many years ago. I thought it was kind of nice and natural looking seeing the snails. UNTIL they took over the tank. I've tried Had-A-Snail, but I think they should have renamed the product to Had-A-Fish. Even a direct solution on the snail just seem to stun them and make them fall to the substrate. Eventually, they would just get up and move around.

I see no benefit to the snails. Sure, they may move the substrate around, helping prevent anaerobic pockets. But keep in mind, snails poop, so their crawling in the substrate, means, their packing their poop in there.

[baldpate]

Many thank you's for all the comments.

If I went the loach route, would you recommend clowns or yoyos or another? I have read that skunk botias are very good at snail control, but can be nippy toward other fish.

[DirtyBlackSocks]

Even yoyo's can be quite distracting and harass other fish.

I would go with a group of clown loaches as it will inspire them to mess with eachother, rather then playing around with the other fish.

Another option are dwarf loach, although they're very hard to come by - they only grow to 2 inches and are the equivilant of a tiny clown loach with a different pattern. Probably my all time favorite loach - if you can find them and require a group of no less than 6.

As far as the MTS go, they're beneficial to planted tanks and since you won't see them until night, when they do their cleanup, I wouldn't be inclined to try and eradicate them. However, a group of dwarf loach would keep the population well under control.

The scientific name for dwarf loach is Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki although you may find them as Botia sidthimunki which is their old classification name.

Here's a link to a small article about them:
http://www.loaches.com/species-index...ia-sidthimunki

They also look incredibly striking in planted tanks and will not rip up your plants like clown loach can.

[baldpate]

I've read good things about dwarf loaches. The vast majority of the snails are very tiny. Probably just fine for dwarf loaches. They can be tough to get though. I have only seen them once in a store and they wanted $12/fish.

I also like the point about eradication. I would rather not eradicate the MTS because my tank has never looked cleaner. And I find the snails fascinating.

Do clown loaches tear up plants regardless of size? I was under the impression that was more of a problem with big fish that disrupted plants through their feeding/rooting activities. If I did go the clown loach route, I would probably get 2 to 3 inch long fish and trade them in when they got around 5-7 inches or too disruptive.

I am also a bit worried about yoyo interactions w/ my zebra loaches.

[Apistomaster]

MTS can even survive caustic chemicals by clamping their door shut. It could take hours of exposure to do the job but I'm sure they would begin reappearing eventually. There is always at least one tha somehow survives drastic eradication techniques.
I'd find a different animal to make war on than MTS.

[plymbloke]

What pH is your tank at? i found that when mine was at around 6.5 i had literally hundreds, when i let it drop to 5 they couldnt cope and died away, there area few hard ones left which i dont mind but no-where near as bad numbers as before.

infact i have just ocunted 17 in that tank - 100lt, as opposed to the previous 100 plus that used to be on the just the glass!

bring the pH down, fish will love it and the snails will reduce in numbers