Planning a black water biotope in a CUBE aquarium

[russianmd]

Hello, ladies and gents

So due to a variety of reasons, I am about to set up a 36x36x24 (about 135 gallons) planted discus tank. I will strive for an Amazon biotope, but can't really imagine a tank without Java fern in it.

I have kept such an aquarium in a 30 gallon in college (over 12 years ago now) - no discus, but lots of plants, only cardinals, and very soft, tannic water.

Currently, I have a 120G AGA mixed-reef tank that is very much dialed in. So I am looking for a next challenge, and was finally given a go-ahead by my partner.

As I mentioned, a variety of reasons limit the shape/size of the tank to the one described above. I plan to have an overflow on the back wall, mask it with some driftwood and lots of plants.

There will be only three species of fish in the tank: Discus, Cardinal Tetras, and a school of Corys. Plants will mostly come from the Amazon region.

Filtration will be done via a CPR wet-dry. The tank will have CO2 injection, a metal-halide 250W pendant, and substrate-heating cables.

I have been reading TONS of books, and have looked through all Amano books for inspiration. I should have come to this forum instead!

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The anticipated start date for this tank is July - so I have plenty of time to plan, and would be very thankful for any advice.

I live in Brooklyn, NY - so local suppliers' (I am aware of Discus Madness) 411 would be invaluable.

I promise to post lots of pics once the project gets started!

[GrillMaster]

What exactly is a CPR wet-dry? Call me clueless but I have never heard of such a thing. Enlighten me!

[russianmd]

It's a trickle filter - the CPR is just a gimmicky brand name, I think.

Here's a link to a vendor that sells them in several sizes:
http://tinyurl.com/6d9lkr

Thanks for the interest!

[dishpanhands]

You would be better off getting a canister filter if you are going to add CO2..That CPR filter will waste it...

[GrillMaster]

Sounds like you have done plenty of research and know exactly what direction you are going.

Sounds like an excellent project. Look forward to seeing the pics!

tc
Mark

[russianmd]

This is the point where I am stuck... The discus need the oxygenation, the plants need CO2... I would add more CO2 with a trickle filter rather than a canister, but would get the benefits of higher 02 and CO2 content - is that logic flawed?

CO2 is really inexpensive - I use it for a Calcium reactor in my reef. Discus fish are not.

On another note, I plan an open top - never heard of discus jumping. My previous FW tank had a canopy - so never worried about it with cardinal tetras. Do they jump?

I just had to put a mesh top on my reef because of one very very bad anthia that lived through two excursions over the rim of the tank.

Thank you again!

[dishpanhands]

On another note, I plan an open top - never heard of discus jumping. My previous FW tank had a canopy - so never worried about it with cardinal tetras. Do they jump?

yes they sure can jump out the top..you will need to have the tanks covered..

[digthemlows]

I had my old 72 as an open top for about 4 months.........until my favorite discus was found as carpet jerky on the floor...........I'd cover the tank, but there are folks who don't and haven't lost fish............

[russianmd]

Yikes - good to know. My dog would enjoy the discus jerkey - but I won't

So canopy it is. Makes it easier for some things (lighting)!

[Larry Grenier]

Aquascaping: I like your deep-tank plan; lots of reef tank folks think this way but a planted discus tank with 3' front-to-back should look really nice. Putting some really big plants in back with smaller towards the front should be sweet. I'd put big amazon swords toward the back with root tabs in the substrate under their roots.

Lighting: If if were me, I would look into 36" T5s instead of one Metal Halide to get full coverage over a 36"/36" footprint.

FIlter: I personally wouldn't do the wet/dry but would go with the canister.

Discus: I'd suggest more mature fish for adding to a planted tank rather than juvies.

[russianmd]

Thanks, Larry. Having now decided to go with a canopy, T5s look like a better option than a halide (less heat under the hood). And it doesn't sound like people worry about the oxygenation that much - so canister it will be (plus, they are way quieter, which is one of the requirements for this tank.

As far as the maturity of the discus goes - yeah, some of the more mature fish are incredible looking!!! I will start with tetras and corys, and add the discus probably Feb of 09 (already spending the tax return).

My hands are itching to get started - but I have a trip planned, and after I come back, should be set to start!

[Harriett]

I had a wet dry on my big planted tank for a few years before I switched to an FX5 + cascade. I ran CO2 on the system all through that time; I did use a bit more CO2 but it still worked fine. The way I did it was to run the CO2 line right into the mouth of the return pump--the CO2 got carried through the pump, up the return line, and into the spray bar which was set up at the bottom back of the tank pointing up along the back wall. Going through the pump chopped up the bubbles and by the time the teeny CO2 bubbles came out of the spray bar at the other end, I had fairly good absorption. I know that I only got about 2/3rd as much time from a 20 pound tank as I get now running it through a cascade secondary canister into the tank, it was still worth it--again, gas is cheap. I used that system with both an external pump and a pump that sat in the sump at different times [I upgraded to a larger wet dry half way through that period]. I had started by hanging a CO2 reactor on the edge of the sump but eventually dumped the cumbersome reactor and ran it right through the pump, without any change in how much CO2 I went through in a given month.
Best regards
Harriett

[russianmd]

Woo-hoo! The biggest obstacle - getting a tank - seems to be going away!

I've been looking mostly at custom tanks, and either the quality was sub-par, or the price was super-par (supra-par?).

Now there's this from perfecto: the top tank is the one I am getting. Pricing is definitely competitive, especially considering dimensions!

By the way, this is the source for the snippet: (more info and in color)
http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/...ad.php?t=62563

[Apistomaster]

I am with Harriet on this one. Given the nice dimensions and built in overflows of the Perfecto tank, I would gladly use a little more CO2.
I built six tanks this size out of plywood and epoxy paint when I had a fish shop. My only complaint is that due to the refraction index of water, the depth appears less than it it actually is. Once in use, looking through 36 inches of the clearest water, it is still difficult to see much at the back.

HO T-5 lighting is really nice. They are extremely energy efficient and will illuminate the entire aquarium. I use NO T-5 on all my tanks which are more production oriented but even so, I am able to grow plants well and I do not use CO2. I use wet/dry and Canister filters in combination on my two display tanks. Many claim wet/dry filters are "nitrate factories" and thus discourage their use. My experience is that who cares? You make a lot of water changes in most discus tanks regardless of the filter design so why would nitrate levels ever become excessive? My plants grow well enough to require regular trimming and provide me with plenty of plants for other tanks.

[russianmd]

In my case, the tank will be visible from three sides - and the front panel is starfire glass (lower iron content, more transparent) - so I think the 36" depth will not go to waste (and I still get the benefit of extra water volume and surface area!).

I am still debating lighting... Considering the number of options available, I'll probably go for a combo fixture - MH and HO T-5...

Ironic - the metal halides add unnecessary heat to the reef, but this characteristic will actually be useful in the discus tank.

The plan is to plant the tank, let some of the background plants (I am thinking Val in particular) grow up and over to provide shade, and add discus much later.

As far as the overflow goes, I think I'll use it to set up a small sump so that the tank is clean of all wires, tubes, etc.

I am with Harriet on this one. Given the nice dimensions and built in overflows of the Perfecto tank, I would gladly use a little more CO2.
I built six tanks this size out of plywood and epoxy paint when I had a fish shop. My only complaint is that due to the refraction index of water, the depth appears less than it it actually is. Once in use, looking through 36 inches of the clearest water, it is still difficult to see much at the back.

HO T-5 lighting is really nice. They are extremely energy efficient and will illuminate the entire aquarium. I use NO T-5 on all my tanks which are more production oriented but even so, I am able to grow plants well and I do not use CO2. I use wet/dry and Canister filters in combination on my two display tanks. Many claim wet/dry filters are "nitrate factories" and thus discourage their use. My experience is that who cares? You make a lot of water changes in most discus tanks regardless of the filter design so why would nitrate levels ever become excessive? My plants grow well enough to require regular trimming and provide me with plenty of plants for other tanks.