newbie with some questions for the experts out there

[*Polka dots roc*]

Hi guys,

My name is Nicole. I'm new to the forum and the life of discus as well. You all seem so nice and very good at discus... I love the pics of tanks and fish they are amazing! I need a few pointers. My tank is the largest i can get and it is a 46 gallon. I also have a 25 and 10 gallon tank set aside right now. I would love to know how i could set my first discus tank up. I really want to plant the tank but i think i might do this after i grow them out, is that a good idea or no should i do it in the begining? I want to have at least substrate in the tank and i thought when i order them i could have sub. and driftwood. I was planning on putting 4 discus in it but as adults will that be too many or no?
(i know about the 1 fish= 10 gallons)
Ok now for another problem. I have read that when you add the fish, the stuff you use can never have touched other fish is this true? I already have a fluval canister filter, nets, siphones... and i dont really want to have to buy all new stuff especailly when it's all still like brand new.
Now the last problem for today is...
I have a false juliin cory and 2 otos that are in my 25g community tank. I would like to put them into the 46 when i add the discus. They are healthy and thriving in the tank right now but i was thinking if i qt them in the 10g for 2 weeks i could put them into the tank and be sure that they arn't gonna transfer any diseases to my new fish right?
I need help and any advice you can give would help and i don't just have these questions also many more.... so if you just feel like telling me about your tank or showing me some pics i would be extremely happy
THANKS GUYS... im so happy to be part of simply

Nicole
P.S. im ordering fish from april when im ready

[MarcG]

I wouldn't be all that concerned myself... if the corydoras and otos are already pretty well adapted to your water, I'd be more worried about the Discus getting them sick than anything else, unless they had parasites or visible disease. Typically it's the new additions that get the quarantine treatment, and it's to get them used to that water without a major risk to the rest of your tank... if you know anything about ich you'll know that it only takes one weak fish to grab a foothold.

I'll let the experts have their say, though.

[BSW]

Hello Nicole -
Welcome to the forum -
You could do a 46 with four adult discus, if you are planning on buying youngsters, I would grow them out in a bare bottom first. If you are going to plant the tank upon set up, I would try to get Discus that are young adults. Grow outs require more water changes due to heavy feeding, and it is stressful to try to do the best for the fish and the plants at the same time. There are better fish and plant growers, than myself here but, I had to replant my tank several times before my fish became adults. Now it's fine, but the frequent (sometimes twice a day) water changes during grow out, did take a toll on the plants. Also remember that plants, substrate, driftwood, equipment, etc... take up tank space, actually reducing the available gallons, in a tank that, is on the smaller side already.
For your second question -
You can put them in an already establish tank, but, I would at least do a run of Formalin through it first. Discus will pick up other fishes cooties easily, even if those fish don't appear sick. You don't need to buy new stuff, but I would sterilize any used equipment upon setting up the new tank for the Discus. And very importantly, the new tank must completely cycle !!! It's tempting to put the fish right in, but not with Discus, they just won't take it. A 46 gal could stand to cycle a month or 6 weeks before adding your Discus.
I hope I've been of some help, there is tons of info here, lots of reputable people, and pictures out the wazoo ! My fish are on here to much already ! You can see some of them in this thread -http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?p=458577#post458577
Post #19.
I'm sure you have already but, read, read a lot !!! If you have more questions, just ask -
Enjoy Simply
and enjoy your Discus !!
BSW

[*Polka dots roc*]

Thank you Bsw and Marc G. i enjoyed reading your posts. Bsw i must say your fish are amazing i hope i can get mine like that I think i have a better idea now of what i'm doing. I'm planning on getting 1 rose red or a platinum albino(i think thats what it's called), 1 yellow, 1 red turq, and a blue snakeskin. As BSW said i think im gonna keep the tank bb with one peice of drift wood or a pot till they grow out.
Two more questions though when your cycling the tank do you do water changes everyday assuming there is going to be algae eaters in it or do you just leave it? And does it matter that right now the tank has saltwater fish in it, can this hurt the discus?

[BSW]

I'm not the least familiar with saltwater tanks, I do not know what chemicals you use or anything.
I would not use any of the substrate, assuming it's crushed coral, it will definitely raise the PH of your tank. I really wouldn't even know the best way or how begin cleaning one to change it over to Discus, there are some saltwater keepers here and I hope they will chime in and help with that issue.
As far as cycling, I always did it with fish but there are many that are fond of a fishless cycle and it has worked well for them. When cycling with fish, I use Corrys, and I do a water change once a week, unless something spikes like ammonia, but I always had heavily planted tanks, and plants help with a cycle too. Try not to feed to heavy during cycling. You will need to be testing your water, until Nitrate starts showing up. And once a heavier bio load is put on the tank, such as four Discus, the tank might have a tendency to go through another "mini cycle" you will need to watch the water and keep up with the water changes once you add the Discus.
BSW

[*Polka dots roc*]

Thank you again. One more quick question the water that we have has a ph of 7.5 and i know this is too high for discus so how can i lower it and keep it there?

[BSW]

The PH will be fine, unless you plan to breed, then you will need RO, so that you can adjust the PH, KH & GH.
Do find out the PH of the source they are comming from though, and when they arrive, acclimate them, so they can adjust to the PH difference and water difference, if there is one, instead of a dramatic change.
BSW

[*Polka dots roc*]

Thank you again. I'm sorry i have another question when adding the fish to the tank after you get them do you have to add water from the tank to the bag or whats the best way to do that?

[Harriett]

Welcome aboard, Nicole.
If you are moving shipped fish from bagged water, here is the issue: from traveling at least overnight, the water quality goes down but will be kept under control because there is no new air going in. As soon as you open the bag, chemical changes occur and you frequently get a sudden high ammonia level. THis is damaging to the fins, gills, etc--just stressful also. For this reason, many people drop and plop--I float the bag in the tank first to equalize temperature. I untie the rubberband from the bag, invert it over a sink or bucket and open just enough to let the water out but not the discus. I then drop the discus from the bag into the tank. Never had an issue. Usually the pH will drop from being in the bag and yes there is an issue about changing pH values. It generally works fine when going from lower pH to a higher pH, but NOT the other way around.
Hope this helps a bit.
Best regards
Harriett

[*Polka dots roc*]

thank you harriett there is always so many questions going around in my head and i still have a long time to wait. Hopefully i will get the tank soon.

[Harriett]

There is a lot to learn and you are doing things in the right order--research first, experiment with fish after! The archives here have a world of information for you! Look at the stickies for all the basics, and just surf around online--it's all there, let alone the outstanding discus hobby books available to you as well.
Best regards
Harriett

[*Polka dots roc*]

Thanks harriett i'm trying my best I bought a book a few weeks back called Discus fish-a complete Pet owner's manual by Thomas A. Giovanetti it's a barrons book. So far I have found alot of things to be different on simply then in the book for example it says that you should only do a 20-30 percent water change once a month where as on simply it says a 50 percent water change a day.

[Harriett]

Yes, lots of conflicting information out there and even here the trends tend to change as people experiment a bit. I've seen some opinions on care change over the years. Giovanetti's book has been in print a long time... In terms of your example of water change regimens, there exists a wide range of ideas--for myself, the following applies: when raising babies, it's 75% or more daily water changes [feeding 5-6 x day] until they are about 4", then 50% daily works [feeding 4 x day] until they reach a year or so--at which point I slow down on the feedings to 3 x day. When they reach 6" or better, it's down to 2 x day feed and I change about 70% every other day--sometimes every third day, without any trouble--been doing it that way for a few years. I overfilter the hell out of my tanks and I understock the discus--always. The less you feed, the cleaner the water stays, and vice versa. The growth curve is extreme the first year and the imperically best conditions [clean water, healthy high quality food, a good sized school of discus housed together in a large enough tank prperly set up filtration wise, etc, etc] get you the least trouble, best growth, happiest energetic discus--the window closes substantially for optimal growth after that timeline is spent, IME.
Let me just throw out a few more authors to research--there are certainly more, but here a fast few off the top of my head who's books have been valuable to many of us [no particular order].
Jack Wattley, Jim Quarles, Dick Au, Andrew Soh, Heiko Bleher.
Best regards
Harriett

[*Polka dots roc*]

Thanks again Harriett I was reading about keeping discus with community fish right now i have a 25 gallon community tank but am making my 46 the discus tank.
I have-
1 dwarf gourami (female)
5 neon tetras
2 scissor tail rasboras
2 x-ray fish
1 guppy and 4 babies
1 bala shark
2 flying foxes(very aggressive)
2 oto's
1 false jullin cory
Now for my question which of these fish can safely live with discus? I'm thinking that I should just keep it a discus tank with some oto's and a few false jullin cories what do you think?

[Harriett]

I'd just do the ottos and cories.
Harriett