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Thread: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"

  1. #481
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    Default Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"

    Is there a list of all the desirable recessive traits, or a visual map of how to breed various traits?

  2. #482
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tay View Post
    Is there a list of all the desirable recessive traits, or a visual map of how to breed various traits?
    Unfortunately no. We really don't have that in this hobby. Unlike Angelfish genetics, for example, that are well known, Discus color morphs are complex . We do know alot of about what crossing this to that looks like, but its not always true to what we think. Discus Genetics are largely plastic which is why there are so many morphs and "strains"

    al
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  3. #483
    Registered Member gimaal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post
    Unfortunately no. We really don't have that in this hobby. Unlike Angelfish genetics, for example, that are well known, Discus color morphs are complex . We do know alot of about what crossing this to that looks like, but its not always true to what we think. Discus Genetics are largely plastic which is why there are so many morphs and "strains"

    al
    I've often wondered about this, Al. Why do you think this is? Why hasn't there been a Joanne Norton to do for Discus what she did for Angelfish (and many other species). You would think the stature of Symphysodon alone among aquarium fish would have attracted keen scientific interest and curiosity about their genetics. I think we'd all be far more interested in, and learn more from that than all the historical chaos about how many Discus species there are and the debate over nomenclature.

  4. #484
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"

    Aaron, Its a good question and I think alot of it has to do with the reality of breeding Discus. Unlike Angels which really are from my breeding experiences with them easy to breed and prolific discus are more difficult. Angels are relatively tolerant of a wider range of parameters than discus and breed in them readily. They also reach breeding age very quickly,unlike discus. The strains are also relatively few compared to discus (though they are increasing) In short, its an easy fish to work out genetics on in a short time though the act of doing this in angels was a huge success that really benefited the hobby.

    Discus in contrast are slower to mature sexually, have many many different strains and color forms. They require a more narrow set of parameters to breed. They are very much the product of crosses and hybridizations that make figuring out the offsprings genetics very hard. And lastly very few people actually breed discus , raise fry to adult and breed those. Its a tremendous commitment to do so in both time and space. Few hobbyists breed discus at all, and for many there is just too many options they want to stay with one line. The result is what we know about breeding outcomes is just too fragmented except for the basics like albinos and snakeskins.

    Commercial breeders overseas have a very good idea as to what to cross to get what they are looking to achieve but even that is largely based on phenotypes.. " if you want spots...these strains will give you spots if bred together." Its trade secrets though...I doubt any of these commercial breeders will divulge that info.

    If you think about it , it can take almost 6 years to get to F2 ... it could take less time but males can take up to 2 years to be fertile. Its taken me that long to get to f2 in my wild x domestic crosses..

    I should also add that even when hobbyists are successful with breeding discus... actually raising them to adult is another story..most either lose them or sell them young because of constraints on space and time. Patterns and colors are slow to develop... not so with most angels.
    Last edited by brewmaster15; 03-19-2024 at 07:50 AM.
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


    >>>>>I am a science guy.. show me the science minus the BS

    Al Sabetta
    Simplydiscus LLC Owner
    Aquaticsuppliers.com


    I take Pics.. click here for my Flickr images

  5. #485
    Registered Member gimaal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"

    Good points. Thanks, Al. I remember reading somewhere that geneticist, Myron Gordon, when he began his extraordinary work with Xiphophorus, started with platies rather than swordtails because the former matured so much faster. He eventually got to swordtails where the groundbreaking work he did in platies had already given him a leg-up. I guess what we need is a very patient, talented, young geneticist to crack the discus code.

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