"Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"

[K22]

Rod,

Just wanted to drop you a thank you for the reply.

As it happens the SW has now paired up with a BT and are nearing the end of day 2 with their spawn, not what I had intended, but hey-ho, it's good practice for him after the 4 odd months of egg eating he's enjoyed!

BTW, is Turq dominant or recessive Thanks, K22

[Rod]

Rod,

Just wanted to drop you a thank you for the reply.

As it happens the SW has now paired up with a BT and are nearing the end of day 2 with their spawn, not what I had intended, but hey-ho, it's good practice for him after the 4 odd months of egg eating he's enjoyed!

BTW, is Turq dominant or recessive Thanks, K22

Your welcome.


BT is dominant, simply replace the homozygous pigeon X SW explanation with the BT and the results will follow the same sequence.

Rod

[Bigfishes]

Hi all. Does anyone know if there's a guide (preferably with photos) or a flowchart that shows the outcomes of different crosses? Thanks.

Greg

[babers]

Has anyone crossed a Tangerine and Red Marlboro?...Just wondering what they will look like.
Thanks.

[Rod]

Hi Joel,

Do you have a pic of the Tangerine? There have been a few types over the years with Tangerine in the name.

Rod

[valery]

Hi Joel,

Do you have a pic of the Tangerine? There have been a few types over the years with Tangerine in the name.

Rod

Hello Rod, I too have a tangerine pigeon blood discus, that I am breeding with a checkerboard pigeon blood.

I was wondering about inbreeding. In order to eventually end up with the cleanest possible PB discus, would I be able to keep inbreeding from this pair and their fry? and achieve a clean result? (limited peppering)

Also, how far can inbreeding really go until you start coming up with undesirable results?

Heres a photo of the pair:
Front: Tangerine PB
Back: Checkerboard PB


Thank you

[Rod]

Hi Val,

Yes you could inbreed the fry from this pair and achieve good clean fry. This pair already has some slight peppering and likely the fry will as well in varying amounts. Keep selecting the cleanest with the cleanest and the majority will become cleaner as time goes on.

Regarding inbreeding, inbreeding essentially aligns genes. This can be both a good and a bad thing. It tends to make strains more homogenous and desirable for many collectors, but any faults inadvertently bred into the line will quickly become a feature of the line as well. Inbreeding with strict selection should allow you many years of problem free discus culture

Regards

Rod

[valery]

Hi Val,

Yes you could inbreed the fry from this pair and achieve good clean fry. This pair already has some slight peppering and likely the fry will as well in varying amounts. Keep selecting the cleanest with the cleanest and the majority will become cleaner as time goes on.

Regarding inbreeding, inbreeding essentially aligns genes. This can be both a good and a bad thing. It tends to make strains more homogenous and desirable for many collectors, but any faults inadvertently bred into the line will quickly become a feature of the line as well. Inbreeding with strict selection should allow you many years of problem free discus culture

Regards

Rod

Thats great Rod. Thank you for the post! Very helpful for understanding the hobby that much more

[AirCapital]

hello there I do not currently have discus but have and will again but rather angelfish so the genetics interests me and it seems the discus genetics are not near as mapped out as angels. so here are my questions.

this may sound like a stubid question but is crossing fish of different strains frownd down upon? do most like to keep there strains'PURE:. or do you like veriaty in the spawn?
if one was wanting to either create a new strain or outcross a weak strain would you use a wild or domestic discus for the out cross ?
I have amillion more but dont want to flood my mind I just see such bright coloration on some and wonder if I was to cross this to a wild of say the brown veriety how hard would that be to get the color back with seletive inbreeding. on avarage how many generations does it take to get the bright coloration when crossed with wilds. thanks you quys Evan

[Eddie]

hello there I do not currently have discus but have and will again but rather angelfish so the genetics interests me and it seems the discus genetics are not near as mapped out as angels. so here are my questions.

this may sound like a stubid question but is crossing fish of different strains frownd down upon? do most like to keep there strains'PURE:. or do you like veriaty in the spawn?
if one was wanting to either create a new strain or outcross a weak strain would you use a wild or domestic discus for the out cross ?
I have amillion more but dont want to flood my mind I just see such bright coloration on some and wonder if I was to cross this to a wild of say the brown veriety how hard would that be to get the color back with seletive inbreeding. on avarage how many generations does it take to get the bright coloration when crossed with wilds. thanks you quys Evan

This would actually depend entirely on the strains used. Some strains are not compatible, especially when using pigeon bloods. I'd say crossing 2 different strains without a purpose may be frowned upon but if its for experience, then there is no harm in that IMO. But crossing incompatible strains and selling them is like fudging the gene pool. Generally people want to know what they are getting, not some half breed with unstable genetics. Reason being, is because the people will most likely end up breeding those fish and it will be quite a unpleasant surprise if the outcome is something totally different than what you were expecting. There has been so much studying of domestic hybrid genetics and some EXCELLENT resources are Andrew Soh's first and second book. Both these books are excellent with regard to genetics and possible outcomes.

I like the idea of injecting wild forms into domestics, the results can be something very interesting with selective breeding. This is where you may come up with something new IMO. To me, its like the wild card in UNO.

Take care,

Eddie

[darkknight87]

That actually bothers me. I don't think I could ever destroy a discus..if it died of natural causes thats one thing..but I know I could never purposefully destroy some just because of how they looked.

No harm intended naked santa but your Av would scare my kids(I really dont know what to think of it). No bust on your poor fish(they cant help the enviorment you have shackled them with) but they look awfull. I would have destroyed them weeks ago and would never condiser them for breeding. Sorry bud... just the way I see it.

[AirCapital]

That actually bothers me. I don't think I could ever destroy a discus..if it died of natural causes thats one thing..but I know I could never purposefully destroy some just because of how they looked.

when breeding you must always cull anything that doest met the standard and the bar should be set very high if the parents are an 8 you want to chose nines never let the line go down.I have a sump pump with a brass impeler because when I flush my culls into the sump the plastics ones jusr didnt CUT IT. when you want to better a breed you cant have heart when it comes to selection that is why it must be done. sometimes yes it is hard because maybe that cull had something the others did as fair as good unusual traits but it will only weaking your project. it for the greater good thats all

[AirCapital]

This would actually depend entirely on the strains used. Some strains are not compatible, especially when using pigeon bloods. I'd say crossing 2 different strains without a purpose may be frowned upon but if its for experience, then there is no harm in that IMO. But crossing incompatible strains and selling them is like fudging the gene pool. Generally people want to know what they are getting, not some half breed with unstable genetics. Reason being, is because the people will most likely end up breeding those fish and it will be quite a unpleasant surprise if the outcome is something totally different than what you were expecting. There has been so much studying of domestic hybrid genetics and some EXCELLENT resources are Andrew Soh's first and second book. Both these books are excellent with regard to genetics and possible outcomes.

I like the idea of injecting wild forms into domestics, the results can be something very interesting with selective breeding. This is where you may come up with something new IMO. To me, its like the wild card in UNO.

Take care,

Eddie

eddie, thank you fro the great relpl and info. I know hwta you meen about hidden genes some of my fish I just dont cross with others because it would be a big let down for someone to get a halfblack angel that had a hidden smokey gene and find out they will have a nightmare to deal with when they breed them because they look so similiar but are so different.
eddie I believe your from okinawa I was stationed there for yr in the Marine Corps great place I did alot of cleaning and sweating there so yea...lol

[valery]

Hello again Rod,

I was wondering at which point PB fry develop their PB characteristics?? The fry are now 13 days old, and there are no red eyes visible. The eyes are white, the bodies are white, and are just developing the white pattern from the parents.

[Rod]

Hi Val, Another few weeks and the eye color will be more obvious, also the body color should be more yellow, or orange/red if you feed color foods. Have you got a pic of the fry?

Rod