Are all these diseases/sickness common?

[sledge760]

New here and great site.
I am planning on changing my 180 gallon South American tank to Discus in a month or so. I have kept just about every type of fish there is for 35 years now, including saltwater, and ran a reef tank for awhile. The only fish I have not kept are Discus. I have been doing my research mostly from websites and forums. Don't get me wrong but I have never seen a fish like a Discus get so many different kinds of diseases. Is this normal? Gill flukes, HITH, tapeworms, etc. I maintain a strict regiment of water changes on my 180, typically 80-90 gallons a week and my fish never get sick. I see people keeping strict maintenance routines and good feeding but the fish still seem to get sick anyway. Is it a give in that sooner or later they get sick? I am just asking because there are over 4,000 threads in the disease/section.

[pcsb23]

hehe first welcome to SD

Yep over 4000 threads. But these are from November 2002, some 68 months worth. Given we have nearly 12,000 members it really isn't as many as you would think.

If we were to analyse these threads a very large proportion would be from people new to the hobby that have picked up second rate fish from some local shop that has kept them in dire condiotions. These same newbies will then have believed all the bull they get from these shop owners and just plonked these already compromised fish into their own aquarium with other fish, often non-compatible fish too. Given that a healthy discus only needs clean water and good food, it is not surprising that when you withhold these two requirements the fish suffer.

Now add to this that the lfs will say things like "oh they are difficult" and "you need this med and that cure and this water extract" then it is easy to see the downward spiral and the perpetuation of the myth.

It never ceases to amaze me that people would never consider keeping a Malawi cichlid that costs a couple of bucks in soft water yet they will happily keep a discus that costs 80 or more bucks in hard water......still what it does show is that the discus is in fact a hardy and adaptable fish provided it is given it's two main requirements the most important of which is lots and lots of clean water.

Because a discus costs a lot money people will ask for help if they get sick. If it was a platy or a goldfish that cost very little and it got sick most people just say "oh well - it got sick! never mind I'll buy another!" it's a bit harder to do with expensive fish. If you were to go on a Koi forum you would see similar too.

The most annoying thing is that it really is quite easy to keep discus (any fish) healthy. First do some research and find out what their requirements are, with discus it's easy - clean water and good food. Next start with good stock, finally enjoy them!

Welcome to the madness that is keeping discus!!

[Don Trinko]

I have 20 discus total. 13 of them have never been sick. 5 I bought knowing they were sick and they apear to be cured. I have had fish die that got sick shortly after purchase.
Most of the sick fish I have had got sick shortly after purchase. Were they sick when I bought them? Probably, Or did they get sick from my water or shipping? (shipping was 2 hour car trip in an insulated cooler) Probably not.
Discus cost more than most tropical fish so you notice things your wouldn't on a platy or guppy. Most of the common tropicals just die and we fish them out and flush them down the toilet. Discus (my opinion) seem to show sighns of illness so we notice something is wrong long before they die.
They are a beautiful fish and are more inteligent than most tropicals. They do require above all things clean water. ( water change, good filtering) Many have tryed to avoid WC (water change ) but it is the most efective way to keep the water clean. Many change 50% per day. I change 40% to 50% twice per week. (different bioload, some get 40 others get 50) Don T.

[sledge760]

Believe me, I am glad to hear they are not sick all the time. I am looking forward to keeping Discus. I am planning on 2- 40% water changes a week in my 180. I know the more the better, but is that sufficient? I just have to find a reliable dealer in the Phila. PA area.

[Don Trinko]

This is abought what I do in my 75.(40%) It has 7 near adult discus. I have some big discus (3) in 29g. I started with 4 fish and 30% twice a week. I now have 3 discus and 50% twice a week. They grew a lot!! More is better than less as long as the water for wc is similar in ph and temperature. I don't like doing large %wc just incase something goes wrong with the storage water but many people do 50% or more daily. Don T.

[sledge760]

Thanks Don.

[ShinShin]

Sledge,

Send Discus Hans a PM. Perhaps a trip to Baltimore is in your future. His Stendker Discus are some of the toughest discus I have ever raised and bred.

In spite of what you may read at times, discus have a narrow range in which they thrive. A larger range in which they do okay, and a still larger range in which they can survive. Find the correct range, and not only will you succeed, your discus will thrive.

Discus natural habitat is in very soft acidic waters, for the most part. There is an exception or two. Microorganisms have a difficult time existing in such water. This includes good microorganisms as well as pathogenic ones. This is how this discus evolved to have a weak immune system, as well as the fry rearing technique of fry eating the parents slime coat. There is no infusoria in the native streams. This is why discus fry do not accept infusoria at birth in a tank.

Alot of discus ailments are tank related. Flukes are uncommon in the wild, but very common in a closed system, especially when overcrowding a tank and slacking on water changes. Tapeworms are common in the wild, and not so in the domestic fish, except where certain tubifeds are fed. This is and easy fix.

Almost all diseases the discus face can be traced back to the care they are given. Stress and diet are the biggest problems. Poor husbandry techniques and improper water parameters will, in time, take their toll on the discus.

It is my opinion, based on my experiences, that a discus doing "well" in hard, alkaline water, would do exceedingly better had it been raised in soft, acidic water.Their life would be healthier as well as longer in such water, given the same care, otherwise. I can see a difference in my discus since they messed with the water in my area. The pH was ~6.5, now it is 7.2. I could also see a difference when I lived in a part of the country for a couple of years and had to reconstitute DI water and ran the pH at 5.8. Those were the most vibrant and healthy discus I had.

Mat

[brewmaster15]

I 'll weigh in here... I agree largely with what Mat and Paul said about the diseases and causes...
I'll diverge a little on the soft water issue though...

I know far too many people that have beautiful healthy Discus in water that is far from Amazon Ideal to blame health issues on that to too large a degree.. Though I do agree that soft water is their natural environment and acidic softwater has health benefits for them. If I had my choice thats what I would maintain all my tanks in...but I have far too many tanks for that and my well water is not "Amazon" by any means.......If you have a tank or two and can make Amazon type water with an Ro unit ...awesome.....or if you are blessed with it from the tap...COOL for you.... most aren't going to have that luck though.... in the USA many municipalities buffer water up now to prevent copper pipe corrosion.

JMO,I think the harder the water...the more effort needs to be placed on cleanliness and husbandry... all those that I know with liquid rock for water...maintain their tanks extremely well. I'm not saying to skimp on water changes if you have soft acidic water but its more forgiving... and .. I would definetly not skimp on the water changes and hygiene if you have hard alkaline water..... as I do believe you could be setting yourself up for a problem.

As for me... My discus, with exception of breeders are not in soft water but not in hard water either.....medium hard well water is what I am given here...pH range 7.2-7.8, 450us, medium hard. My Discus do well enough here in that..

Hth,
al

[sledge760]

Sorry for not replying sooner. I live in a suburb of of Phila. PA. My water out of the tap:
20 ppm Nitrates
7.2 ph (consistent)
0 amonia
0 nitrites
I just ordered a TDS meter to check TDS.
I do have a ro/di unit that I plan on using somewhat. Most likely 25% ro/di and 75% city water. I would like to use more ro/di but I am planning 2x 35-40% water changes a week that comes out to around 150-160 gallons of water a week. As you all know waste with all that ro/di water would be quite a high watet bill, besides the time that it takes to produce the water. With 7.2 ph and some ro/di I guess you may call the water medium-low hardness. The tank will have 3 large pieces of driftwood and a thin layer of sand. I do not like the bb look. I also run 2x FX5's on the tank and the water is crystal clear.
Please let me know how this set up sounds?
Thanks

[LizStreithorst]

If I were you I'd go with straight tap (aged) and save the RO for when you decide to breed.

[brewmaster15]

I agree with Liz.

Also on your setup....that should be fine... my only suggestion is if you go the sand route....try to go with larger discus... 3-4 " or larger... 2" fish require alot of feeding and tank hygiene is harder to keep in a substrate tank...IMo... not impossible...but just harder..

If you go with small fish...try to put up with a bare bottom tank a few months...then add sand...You'll be happier in the long run if you do that, IMO.

hth,
al

[sledge760]

Not going with ro/di water works for me. I have 2x 32 gallon rubbermaid trash cans that I have been using for a long time now that I fill and let the water age for 2-3 days. The water is aerated with a small powerhead and I treat with Prime. There is a dealer in Jersey that has 10 tanks of a variety of nice looking discus in the 3-4" range that I am planning on getting when I am ready.

[brewmaster15]

Great! Be sure that you take your time and really research where you get your discus from....it may save you headaches and disappointment down the line.

Take care and good luck in the new Hobby!

-al

[sledge760]

Thanks for all your help!

[BAM]

Sledge,

I live in south Jersey, near Vineland, adn have been in discus for about six months. I have made mistakes, but things have improved. I tried several sources for discus, and was not happy with my first tries, but I have been VERY satisfied with Discus Maddness (a member) in north Jersey. It is off exit 148 (Bloomfield Ave.) of the Garden State Parkway. Very helpful and an excellent selection of fish. It may be easier for experienced discus keepers to mail order, but I do not know what I want well until I see it. As you read you will find you want at least 6 fish, and young adults arround 3.5 inches are easier to start with (tougher fish) than young ones. You want to bring them home at the same time and from the same place! The trick is finding a place that has a good selection of differnt strains in each of the different size catagories.

I particularly like the white rabbits that are butter yellow, the eruption leopards, and the blue pearls. You need to see the adult blue pearl in the show tank to be a believer.

It is definately worth the trip up the NJTP to the GSPW to pick out your fish in person. Dress lightly. the fish room is kept at about 87 degrees.

BAM