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Thread: How to Dose Flourish Excel

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    Default How to Dose Flourish Excel

    It says on the Flourish Excel bottle to DIRECTIONS: On initial use or after a major (> 40%) water change, use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 40 L (10 gallons*). Thereafter use 1 capful for every 200 L (50 gallons*) daily or every other day. Dosing may be slowly increased in high-growth aquariums. For smaller dosing please note that each cap thread is approximately 1 mL.
    How does this work if water gets changed as frequently as we do. I change 80% of my water every to every other day, because I am growing out juveniles. (I know it is easier in a bb tank, but I can not have anymore tanks and my tank was already planted so...). Does that mean I would have to add 1 capful of Flouirsh Excel for every 10 gallons every to every other day or would I just add the maintenance dose of 1 capful per 50 gallons and add the full dose of 1 capful per 10 gallons once a week or a combination of the above? I have a 50 gallon tank and do add C02 at a rate of 29 bubbles per minute. I look forward to any information I may recieve and let me know if more information is needed.
    Last edited by rogge26; 07-24-2008 at 02:13 PM. Reason: product

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    Oh Yeah. This will probably be helpful. I have high light. 216 watts of light in a fifty gallon tank. In addition to Flourish Excel, I also am going to start dosing Flourish, Flourish Trace, Flourish Iron, Flourish Potassium, and Flourish Phosporous according to the dosing schedule on Seachems dosing schedule except for Flourish which I will dose with every water change.
    Last edited by rogge26; 07-24-2008 at 02:46 PM. Reason: product

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    rogge....Yer gonna be in a world of hurt here in short order with what you have just described!!

    You talking about all these flourish products has me a lil worried to be quite frank! With all the chemicals your fixin to throw in this 50G tank, where do the discus fit in? Sounds like you are hell bent on growing a butt load of plants instead of discus. With 4wpg over that 50G of yours, yer gonna need an EI dosing regime, and a whole hella of alot of plants to dose!! With that lighting, you will need to pack your tank full of plants and dose accordingly.

    Now this bein a Discus forum...Do you think thats fair for the discus?
    Mark

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    Quote Originally Posted by bastalker View Post
    rogge....Yer gonna be in a world of hurt here in short order with what you have just described!!

    You talking about all these flourish products has me a lil worried to be quite frank! With all the chemicals your fixin to throw in this 50G tank, where do the discus fit in? Sounds like you are hell bent on growing a butt load of plants instead of discus. With 4wpg over that 50G of yours, yer gonna need an EI dosing regime, and a whole hella of alot of plants to dose!! With that lighting, you will need to pack your tank full of plants and dose accordingly.

    Now this bein a Discus forum...Do you think thats fair for the discus?
    Then what would you suggest?

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    I have not started the dosing schedule mentioned. Right now all I am dosing is Flourish and CO2. I was going to wait and see what people think before I added any other products. I will change my dosing schedule and what ever else to whatever people think is best. However, I am hesitant to change my light. I paid a lot of money for it.

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    I would stick with only timed release substrate fertilizers and skip all those SeaChem goodies. You just end up flushing those down the drain literally and enough fertilizers from the substrate will replenish the water column plus your CO2 to make your garden grow fine with fewer headaches.
    I go with the KISS methods every time. It also goes against my grain to add chemicals that I am going to remove with every water change. I would allow for some floating plants to use up some of that light and give the discus some shade.
    Larry Waybright

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    Quote Originally Posted by Apistomaster View Post
    I would stick with only timed release substrate fertilizers and skip all those SeaChem goodies. You just end up flushing those down the drain literally and enough fertilizers from the substrate will replenish the water column plus your CO2 to make your garden grow fine with fewer headaches.
    I go with the KISS methods every time. It also goes against my grain to add chemicals that I am going to remove with every water change. I would allow for some floating plants to use up some of that light and give the discus some shade.
    Thanks Larry. I will follow your advice. Do you know of a good timed release substrate fertilizer? Right now I have aquariumplants.com's own total substrate fertilizer. The link is http://www.aquariumplants.com/Aquari...ION_p/fert.htm

    The reason why I was going to add all those seachem products is that the tests I did which were for iron and phospate. There was none of neither of them in my water column even with the addition of Flourish which led me to believe that there is no nutrients for the plants to survive. Only two kinds of plants are doing well. The rest are turning black, even my swords.

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    Not to be disagreeable or disrespectful, but for my own information. Why is the addition of fertilizers bad for my discus? Aren't fertilizers organic not chemical? Lots of people use seachem fertilizers and have no problems. Why would using various seachem fertilizers hurt my discus?

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    If aquarium plant fertilizers are dosed correctly and you monitor the levels to be sure the uptake by the plants is in equilibrium with the needs of the plants, then they are not harmful to discus to the best of my knowledge. Any chemicals present in the excess are undesirable regardless of why or how they got there.

    Most Discus kept are domesticated forms which are much more adaptable than wild discus. They are going to be happy in most any clean warm water that is suitable for most other SA tropical aquarium fish. Like most other domesticated animals, these discus are very easily pleased. The aquatic garden makes a lovely setting for discus displays but is not biotopically accurate. Normally., a healthy planted tank is suitable for Discus even if it is not necessarily needed.

    Wild discus typically inhabit nutrient and mineral poor waters that support few if any true aquatic plants. Their habitat structure is more likely to consist of dead wood or flooded jungle during the rainy season which coincides with their spawning season. They will be at their best when their aquarium water chemistry is similar to their native waters. Not many aquarists are happy with aquariums decorated only with dead wood. A few purist do provide these conditions but the majority strike a balance between the barren and planted design.

    I just removed all the overgrowth of Ludwigia, Large Amazon Swords and a few Kleiner Bar Sword plants. The stuff just sneaks up on me until one day, I realized I couldn't see the discus for the trees, so to speak. I like a touch of green, too, so I just finished tying Java Moss to the wood and left a few pieces of floating Hornwort and Najas sp to provide shaded areas. I am only using about 1/3 the intensity of light you are. Due to the sparse plant growth, my display tank would become a mass of algae in no time under your lights.
    Larry Waybright

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    Quote Originally Posted by Apistomaster View Post
    If aquarium plant fertilizers are dosed correctly and you monitor the levels to be sure the uptake by the plants is in equilibrium with the needs of the plants, then they are not harmful to discus to the best of my knowledge. Any chemicals present in the excess are undesirable regardless of why or how they got there.

    Most Discus kept are domesticated forms which are much more adaptable than wild discus. They are going to be happy in most any clean warm water that is suitable for most other SA tropical aquarium fish. Like most other domesticated animals, these discus are very easily pleased. The aquatic garden makes a lovely setting for discus displays but is not biotopically accurate. Normally., a healthy planted tank is suitable for Discus even if it is not necessarily needed.

    Wild discus typically inhabit nutrient and mineral poor waters that support few if any true aquatic plants. Their habitat structure is more likely to consist of dead wood or flooded jungle during the rainy season which coincides with their spawning season. They will be at their best when their aquarium water chemistry is similar to their native waters. Not many aquarists are happy with aquariums decorated only with dead wood. A few purist do provide these conditions but the majority strike a balance between the barren and planted design.

    I just removed all the overgrowth of Ludwigia, Large Amazon Swords and a few Kleiner Bar Sword plants. The stuff just sneaks up on me until one day, I realized I couldn't see the discus for the trees, so to speak. I like a touch of green, too, so I just finished tying Java Moss to the wood and left a few pieces of floating Hornwort and Najas sp to provide shaded areas. I am only using about 1/3 the intensity of light you are. Due to the sparse plant growth, my display tank would become a mass of algae in no time under your lights.
    Thank you Larry! That was what I was looking for. Your answer was very complete and informative. Now I understand. I will find the balance between discus and plants. I keep taller plants in back. They provide shaded areas for the Discus. I plant short plants in fromt so they can take up some of the light and nutrients and the fish still have plenty of room to swim around. I will remember to keep my plants properly pruned so the discus can be seen. I am obviously new to plants, but I will strive to find the balance. Thanks again for such a complete answer to my question.

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    You are welcome. I hope I helped a little.
    My only discus display tank contains wild Heckel Discus and they are perfectly happy with just the wood but Java moss at least lets me enjoy some greenery.
    Larry Waybright

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    Smile Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    Hi Larry has hit the nail on the head when he says you need balance. I am a plant person by heart but in my 150 I do have wilds and I know this goes against mostof the people here but I have given plenty of room for the wilds and I keep it under stocked only 4 (do too my errors I lost 3), My discus seem fine and my plant growth is great. I use a lot of plant tabs and try not to put to much in the water column. As for Excel you need to be careful here as it can hurt your discus. With that many water changes you should not have to much algae. With all that lighting you will need some floating plants. HTH Ed

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    Although Larry's advice is sound, having 4 wpg over a 50G tank is going to give you a lesson on algae in short order!! I promise...

    The fact that you have never done a planted tank, much less a Discus tank, will have you giving up both hobbies pretty quick. The algae is going to make ya sick I am afraid!

    My advice to you would be master Discus first then master the planted tank or vice versa. Trying to do both as a beginner is going to be a catrastophe for you from what I have read.

    I spent 4 years learning the planted tank. I spent the same amount of time reading up on the proper care of Discus. Ultimately I combined the two. Today I feel compelled to do whatever makes the Discus happy.

    You might want to look into doing the same...
    Mark

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    Quote Originally Posted by rogge26 View Post
    The reason why I was going to add all those seachem products is that the tests I did which were for iron and phospate. There was none of neither of them in my water column even with the addition of Flourish which led me to believe that there is no nutrients for the plants to survive. Only two kinds of plants are doing well. The rest are turning black, even my swords.
    Iron is usually chelated for plants and even if you test for it, it may not show up on the tests. Else, people would be throwing in old rusty nails to keep their plants growing well (don't do that; that's even worse than throwing in fingernail clippings as a source for calcium).

    What I would suggest you do is first find some people who are growing aquatic plants in your area and see what they are doing. Where did you get the idea for 216 watts of light? Having that much light will work great IF you have everything else balanced out, but if you have too much light and your limiting your plants in one area (such as Potassium), your plants still won't grow well and you might end up with tons of algae instead. Not to mention your electric bill.

    I'd start with 2-3 watts of light, carefully add CO2 and monitor the ppm of CO2, the pH, and see how the plants are growing first. Definitely don't assume massive amounts of light and fertilizer will always result in great plant growth. Besides, having a lot of plant growth is less space for the discus to swim around in and you'll have to prune often - like taking out lots every week or two. I'd rather spend my time doing something else than standing over a tank on weekends trimming plants for a couple of hours.

    Here's a 50 gallon tank I had setup about a year ago. It has a 96 watt CF light and an additional 50 watts of standard fluorescent lighting.

    Just some ideas.



    Walter

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    Default Re: How to Dose Flourish Excel

    Quote Originally Posted by rogge26 View Post
    It says on the Flourish Excel bottle to DIRECTIONS: On initial use or after a major (> 40%) water change, use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 40 L (10 gallons*). Thereafter use 1 capful for every 200 L (50 gallons*) daily or every other day. Dosing may be slowly increased in high-growth aquariums. For smaller dosing please note that each cap thread is approximately 1 mL.
    How does this work if water gets changed as frequently as we do. I change 80% of my water every to every other day, because I am growing out juveniles. (I know it is easier in a bb tank, but I can not have anymore tanks and my tank was already planted so...). Does that mean I would have to add 1 capful of Flouirsh Excel for every 10 gallons every to every other day or would I just add the maintenance dose of 1 capful per 50 gallons and add the full dose of 1 capful per 10 gallons once a week or a combination of the above? I have a 50 gallon tank and do add C02 at a rate of 29 bubbles per minute. I look forward to any information I may recieve and let me know if more information is needed.
    I think I can help you out here. I did just what you have with the flouirsh products. I have had some very good luck with Ocean Nutritions Giovannis Trace + and Fertil + you can add a daily dose or a weekly dose I tryed both I find by the weekly dose is better than the daily I also use Flouirsh Iorn Excel and leaf zone every outher week after a 50% water change. I also dose CO2 I have the cellnoid on the same timer as the lights. As far as water changes my planted tanks all have Discus that are just about grown out so I dont need to feed so much and less water changes. I also have 2.5 to 3.0 watts per gal with Coralife freshwater twin bulbs. I hope this info will help you out. Good luck Mike D. BWA

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