Has anyone bought Discus from LiveAquaria.com?

[kaceyo]

Don't throw out your fish, LOL! Anytime you buy new fish they should be kept in a QT tank, seperate from your current fish, for at least 6 weeks, even if both groups of fish are 100% healthy. They can pass on diseases to each other that each are immune to but the other group, new or old, aren;t able to deal with.

Kacey

[Jim Curtis]

Im not new to keeping fish, just Discus. My fish are not sick. You guys are being somewhat nieve to think that all Discus bought outside of this forum are low quality crap. For all we know my LFS bought his fish from a forum sponsor. Everything is going to be ok guys. Have faith in me.

[*Polka dots roc*]

thats not what we are saying even fish bought on the forum have to be qt this is because a fish that you have had could be immune to a disease but not a disease onthe new fish whether it be through the forum or not. not saying to throw out your fish or that fish bought anywhere else are crap. They probably are gorgeous fish
I would really like to see pictures of your two fish if you can...?

[April]

ok well..add the new fish to your old fish. chances are it will all go well. if not..well the ones who got sick are the innocent ones. if your old ones get sick..the new guys were the cause. if your new ones get sick..its the old ones who were carriers. they can look perfectly healhty but at one time had a virus or pathogen and are carriers.
the reason we all say that..is we all started with a few discus from a lfs. most of us learnt by having issues .
.
another place you could look..is craigslist. theres quite often alot of people in your area who decided to sellt heir discus off tank and all. sometimes you can get nice big discus all grown out and supplies etc for great deals. or look in the selling section here..as some members for whatever reason have to sell off their fish to move or w.h.y.

[DiscusOnly]

Jim,

You appeared frustrated and this thread is getting all over the place.

Let's recap.

#1. Your original question is feedback on LiveAquaria.com for Discus.

There is livestock section on this site and if you do a search, you will not find a lot of review (positive or negative) on LiveAquaria.com's discus. To me, that said a lot. It's a red flag for me that I would be taking higher risks in ordering Discus from them. In term of quality and shipping. Remember, you are ordering discus without the ability see and hand pick what you want like you would have with someone local. This brings you to point #2

#2. People quickly responded with recommendations on using one of the sponsor. Please don't take it as members here trying to tell you that you absolutely have to buy from a Simply sponsor. The recommendation is based on positive experience that folks have in dealing with the sponsor here. In my experience with sponsors here, THEY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to make sure that you have a good experience getting discus from them. I don't think you are going to get that type of service from LiveAquaria. I believe most of the sponsor here are going for repeat business. Not only do they bring in quality discus but they are able to do proper QT and prep work to deliver strong discus. A LFS may even get strong healthy discus from one of the sponsor here, what happens 2 weeks later is a different story.

#3. I don't believe anyone said that the 2 Discus you currently have is inferior to any discus that sponsor are offering. People merely suggest that since you already have discus, make sure you QT any new discus you get (from whomever you wish to get them from). It's so true that it's easier to start out with no discus to get new discus then it is to have some and you add more. DO YOU HAVE TO QT? NO.. that's your decision but it does increase the risk of getting either some or all your discus sick. I am sure there are member here that have gone without QT and I'll be honest and say that I have done it myself without problem. How did I get away without QT? I was LUCKY! that's all.. I could do it again and get lucky again but it's a risk each time. It's a coin toss.

Bottom line is that.

1. It's too risky to order Discus from LiveAquaria (not enough positive feedback).
2. QT your new discus to reduce risks of killing all your fish.

[*Polka dots roc*]

well said

[Jim Curtis]

"another point that everyone is forgetting is..you have two discus from where? and how recent? from a lfs? they could carry a pathogen that they are immune to..and if you add new fish without quarantine..the new ones could become ill. or..if you got from liveaquaria..they could be carriers and not show it..and your other ones or all could become very ill and lose all of them.
the sponsors fish are quarantined and safer..but adding them to fairly newly acquired fish who have been mixed with alot of fish from clearing houses, fish farms, wholesalers etc..could be bad news. best way to start with new fish is a new tank,.new fish..group of 6. "

This is the post I was replying to...

I do QT my fish. I have had a bad experience in the past when I didnt. The automatic assumption that I didnt QT my fish is annoying.

"best way to start with new fish is a new tank,.new fish..group of 6. "

Huh?!

I really dont understand what you guys are trying to tell me. This person said to set up a new tank and start from scratch. Not going to happen. I dont have room for another large tank. I do QT my fish. I put my Discus in with a school of tetra. The tetra are still alive. My fish are healthy. Im not going to post photos, mostly because all I have a cell phone camera, but also because im not interested in what you think of my fish. I know they are healthy. I do a ton of reading on fish keeping. I know the basics as do my parents who have kept aquariums for years. When I was a kid we had a house full of tanks including a 125 gallon reef tank. Granted Discus keeping is different, but I've done my research. I really dont want to mail order fish, I trust my LFS, I'll ask him where he gets his discus from if you want.

I know about fishless cycling. I test my water frequently, I can spot disease. You guys are laying into me worse than you did the guy who bought 10 discus and threw them into an uncycled 50 gallon.

I honestly dont want to buy full grown Discus. Having them grow is part of the fun for me...

[*Polka dots roc*]

me too I love watching them grow. I'm sorry If we came on a little strong... actually I just got fish from kenny's last shipment beautiful fish and really if thats what your getting than great.

[Jim Curtis]

Id be more than happy to buy from Kenny if I dont find what I want somewhere else first. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I can handle criticsm, and I wont be buying from Live Aquaria.

Thanks everyone for your help. I think this thread has run its course. I got the answer I wanted plus plenty of extra...

[April]

well that was me..sorry if i came off wrong. you have two..you said they are sparring. two youngsters dont do well togeather..hence thats why you wanted more. three is not good either..four still theres alot of dominancy..the reason i said a group of 6 is it spreads the aggression better and they feel more secure in a group . but 5 would do . just better to get them all at one time from the same source.
as far as where they get their fish..its not impossible they get them from a sponsor. hans of discus hans usa wholesales german discus to alot of lfs in north america.
if you can get them soon as a new shipment comes in..then of course thats the best time as good selection and you can handpick the strongest and best ones.
sometimes typing on a forum , I dont come off as well as speaking. if you have alot of experience..then im sure you will do well .
the only reason we react..is we have heard sad stories over and over of people collecting at different times..adding new fish..and then having issues.

[Jim Curtis]

I dont mind suggestions. But I find it hard to believe that people dont add to an aquarium after the initial stocking. What if a few fish were to die? Either flush what you have left or wait til the last one is dead before getting anymore? I understand that there is a small risk of disease, but theres also a small risk of me getting run over on my way to the store. IMO, There is such a thing as being overly cautious. The whole point of keeping fish is enjoyment. It gets to a point where you may as well just go to the grocery store and stare at the lobster tank.

Is there anything else I can do within reason to decrease the risk of spreading disease between 2 different batches of fish?

[White Worm]

I do QT my fish. I have had a bad experience in the past when I didnt. The automatic assumption that I didnt QT my fish is annoying.

"best way to start with new fish is a new tank,.new fish..group of 6. "

Huh?!

I really dont understand what you guys are trying to tell me. This person said to set up a new tank and start from scratch. Not going to happen. I dont have room for another large tank. I do QT my fish. I put my Discus in with a school of tetra. The tetra are still alive. My fish are healthy. Im not going to post photos, mostly because all I have a cell phone camera, but also because im not interested in what you think of my fish. I know they are healthy. I do a ton of reading on fish keeping. I know the basics as do my parents who have kept aquariums for years. When I was a kid we had a house full of tanks including a 125 gallon reef tank. Granted Discus keeping is different, but I've done my research. I really dont want to mail order fish, I trust my LFS, I'll ask him where he gets his discus from if you want.
I know about fishless cycling. I test my water frequently, I can spot disease. You guys are laying into me worse than you did the guy who bought 10 discus and threw them into an uncycled 50 gallon.
...

Sounds like you've got it all down...Let us know how it works out with your lfs discus. 6 weeks of discus experience with 2?

. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I can handle criticsm . I got the answer I wanted plus plenty of extra...

I beg to differ but we aim to please.

Im not new to keeping fish, just Discus. My fish are not sick. You guys are being somewhat nieve to think that all Discus bought outside of this forum are low quality crap. For all we know my LFS bought his fish from a forum sponsor. Everything is going to be ok guys. Have faith in me.

I would have to say that you have received some good advice here and discus keepers that are here on simply have gone through the troubles and have had the experiences. You can buy your fish from whoever you want, we just figured you wanted the road with less gamble considering money sounds like an issue. Naive is a strong word for a beginner to be tossing around a group experienced discus keepers on a discus forum when asking for advice. Whats naive, is thinking for one moment that a lfs can bring in discus (from any source) and give them the same attention that a breeder or a sponsor here would. Its naive to think that a lfs doesnt just drop them into a tank with other fish, non-compatible fish, low temps, low feeding, etc. I'm sure there may be some but it will not be your average lfs. They will probably specialize in discus similar to sunrise tropicals.

I dont mind suggestions. But I find it hard to believe that people dont add to an aquarium after the initial stocking. What if a few fish were to die? Either flush what you have left or wait til the last one is dead before getting anymore? I understand that there is a small risk of disease, but theres also a small risk of me getting run over on my way to the store. IMO, There is such a thing as being overly cautious. The whole point of keeping fish is enjoyment. It gets to a point where you may as well just go to the grocery store and stare at the lobster tank.

Yes, some have had to flush their crap and start over when getting discus from a bad source because you would never want to mix them or even keep them in the same room. A new tank with 6 is the best way to start discus when you dont have any. I've easily flushed $100's worth of lfs discus before I found better sources. You will just have to learn for yourself.

[Jim Curtis]

Thanks for the tips White Worm.

"Its naive to think that a lfs doesnt just drop them into a tank with other fish, non-compatible fish, low temps, low feeding, etc. I'm sure there may be some but it will not be your average lfs. They will probably specialize in discus similar to sunrise tropicals."

I asked my LFS where he gets his discus from. He said he ate 6 boxes of Frankenberry and sent in the box tops for them. I

No, seriously, Im tossing all my fish into the toilet right now. Ill bet the forum sponsors will hook me up with a great deal on a tank, filter, and everything else I need too. Ill just post my CC info right in this thread.

[White Worm]

Lol

[Ryan]

I dont mind suggestions. But I find it hard to believe that people dont add to an aquarium after the initial stocking. What if a few fish were to die? Either flush what you have left or wait til the last one is dead before getting anymore? I understand that there is a small risk of disease, but theres also a small risk of me getting run over on my way to the store. IMO, There is such a thing as being overly cautious. The whole point of keeping fish is enjoyment. It gets to a point where you may as well just go to the grocery store and stare at the lobster tank.

Is there anything else I can do within reason to decrease the risk of spreading disease between 2 different batches of fish?

I think there has been some sort of misunderstanding.

No one is saying that you cannot mix fish after you initially stock your aquarium. It's entirely possible. It's just that in the discus world, great care is taken to quarantine any new arrivals before mixing them with your current tank residents. Discus are not cheap fish, especially when you buy them in groups which is often recommended due to their hierarchical social structure. No one wants to lose $200 or more worth of fish because of the lack of quarantine.

What people are suggesting is that, in the future, you buy all of your discus at once from the same source to eliminate the need for quarantine and to avoid behavioral problems like bullying and fighting. Most people start discus tanks by buying at least six young discus and raising them together.

My suggestion is to use the 20 gallon QT tank you mentioned in your previous post to house your upcoming purchases for four to six weeks for observation. This gives them time to settle in, adjust to your water parameters, and build their immune systems back up after the stress of being shipped and relocated. Even healthy fish can get sick if they become stressed and their bodies cannot fight off pathogens. This is why everyone here urges quarantine. No one is assuming that you don't know that, but it's always worth repeating in a thread such as this one where a newcomer to the discus world has questions. Remember, there are tons of guests who visit this board just to read and research. You may understand the importance of quarantine, but someone reading this thread may not.

Please be aware that it's almost impossible to determine what an adult pigeon blood will look like at 3" in size. Most haven't even gotten their full pattern at this point. If you require your fish to look a specific way, it's probably easier to buy adult fish that you can pick out based on the markings and colors you're shooting for. Otherwise, juvenile discus may or may not grow up to look exactly like pictures that you've picked out. Some strains are pretty easy to predict the outcome on (blue diamonds, red turks, and so on) but the striated/patterned pigeons are usually not one of them.

I am re-opening this thread. Hopefully we can all move forward without the attitude.

Ryan