Anyone use Seachem Discus Buffer?

[deanne]

I have pH 8.0-8.2 tap water with moderate hardness. I was dumping in the discus buffer only to watch the pH rise again within a few days (the alkalinity was just eating up the buffer). I was bubbling with CO2, trying all kinds of fancy filtration products, and generally throwing a lot of money down the toilet and my fish still weren't doing well. Then people here on Simply told me not to bother adjusting pH, just do plenty of water changes. I'm having much better luck with fish health now and I think that the more stable conditions contribute to that.

I've also had LFS people INSIST that discus must have low pH. They are just repeating stuff they've heard (they are trying to sell you something, remember) and usually have no experience with discus. Don't bother arguing with them; it's not worth it. I've had expert discus breeders tell me what you've heard here- that discus do fine in a wide range of pH and it's the wild swings that stress them. Don't waste your money!

[07 Maverick P51]

Keep you PH at a consistent level. If you have high PH, keep it high... your Discus will acclimate to it and will prefer the PH to stay always the same. My PH is consistently 6.2 and if goes higher, my Discus gets irritated and suffers. Keep it at the same level!

[sledge760]

I am not using Discus buffer. I took everyone's advice and threw it out.

[Tavio]

Hi guys, I hadnt been on the forum for a minute. Thanks for the advice. The source is Stendker Hans. Thats the only place they get their discus from. Ill shy away from it then. I was also using it because I keep Rams in that same tank and I know those guys are picky about their water conditions. Think the rams will be ok w/o it?

[grandrapids9]

Hi, I am using the Seachem Discuss buffer and it works great, my ph is stable at 6.75 (Hanna Meter), and my dkh is 75ppm. I have using tap water from lake Michigan and no problems.

I also have a RODI from my salt water reef days (14 + years of reefin'), and have thought of trying that for water, there seems to be pros and cons with RODI, what do you guys think.

[Roxanne]

I'll chime in too..

Yes I use it, but I do it because of a couple of reasons. 1. Sydney water has a ph of 7.4-7.6. And it is very stable and it's PH value doesn't alter with aging, though most of the ammonia seems to dissipate after 6 days of aeration. All of the damn places we buy the fish from keep their fish at 6.5 (I know because I test the bagged water they are in first before I acclimatise them.) So, I threw some Seachem DB into the tank on set up, and now even when I do a waterchange, then test the PH, it is at the tank's ph and not the tap. So, I don't use it hardly ever, and never at each water change, because it seems to keep workin IMO for a while.

The other reason is, I had a BIG problem with the Nitrogen Cycle (ALL MY FAULT!) because I buggered around with the filters, in the beginning and the Ammonia was OFF THE PLANET!, and because I read here on this forum that the Ammonia isn't harmful IF the PH is below 7 (I think the quote was 7, but don't quote me cos I can't find the thread now.....) I stopped panicking(so much), thank you SD, so I guess more for safety against ammonia spike reasons I will personally leave mine (PH) at 6.5. (I reread that page on the Nitrogen Cycle so many times until I got it through my thick nut..)

That's just me though...and I am not an expert, bit of a slow learner actually...

[deanne]

Good point about the toxicity of ammonia. I've seen that referenced too. Here is a decent article:

http://www.water-research.net/Watershed/ammonia.htm

"The toxicity to ammonia is primarily attributable to the un-ionized form (NH3), as opposed to the ionized form (NH4+). In general, more NH3 and greater toxicity exists at higher pH."

and

"NH3 is the principal form of toxic ammonia. It has been reported toxic to fresh water organisms at concentrations ranging from 0.53 to 22.8 mg/L. Toxic levels are both pH and temperature dependent. Toxicity increases as pH decreases and as temperature decreases."

I haven't found a mention of a pH threshold, though. My bone-headed interpretation is that there is increasingly more of the existing ammonia in the toxic NH3 form than the other NH4 form as ph rises over neutral (7.0).

I just keep doing those water changes twice a week with good old Rohnert Park tap water, and it all takes care of itself. It seems that the general rule for my fish-keeping practice is that the more I tinker with things the more likely it is something will go wrong :-).

All my fish have come from lower pH environments, too. They have adjusted fine.

[Roxanne]

Had a quick read, thanks for that, just wondering if they mean toxicity decreases as PH decreases or am I missing a point?..

Quote"NH3 is the principal form of toxic ammonia. It has been reported toxic to fresh water organisms at concentrations ranging from 0.53 to 22.8 mg/L. Toxic levels are both pH and temperature dependent. Toxicity increases as pH decreases and as temperature decreases. .....

Also interesting in that article,

...Hatching and growth rates of fishes may be affected. In the structural development, changes in tissues of gills, liver, and kidneys may also occur. Toxic concentrations of ammonia in humans may cause loss of equilibrium, convulsions, coma, and death......Fish may suffer a loss of equilibrium, hyperexcitability, increased respiratory activity and oxygen uptake, and increased heart rate. At extreme ammonia levels, fish may experience convulsions, coma, and death.....At higher levels (>0.1 mg/liter NH3) even relatively short exposures can lead to skin, eye, and gills damage. ...The fish response to toxic levels would be lethargy, loss of appetite, laying on the pond bottom with clamped fins, or gasping at the water surface if the gills have been affected. Because this response is similar to the response to poor water quality, parasite infestations and other diseases....

These are quotes from that article you refer to, it makes me wonder how much damage can be done to a fish before a person even gets it from being raised in poor conditions. Then we spend all that money trying to "fix" it...

Roxanne

[Roxanne]

OK...in my new experience....If you are going to buffer your water, always make sure to test the PH regularly, if it gets too high or low or crashes, as did mine, it can throw your tank off parameter wise and your filter won't be able to process the bacteria, so you will be off to the store buying this and that, as did I, for NOTHING!!! I had to recycle the tank after waiting weeks for it to process the ammonia. This wasn't happening because as I have learned from KaceyO, if the PH is too high or too low, it can't...hth somebody

[SAMRAT DAS]

Yes, i have been using this stuff for a long time. It is a phosphate based buffer. It is not harmful for discus. It has the real ability to decrease the ph level and keep it down constantly.

But, i will advise you don't use raw tap water for your discus. Use partly tap water and partly R/O water. In RO water we do not get essential minerals. To get those minerals we need some tap water or normal water. The mixture of these two kind of water is awesome. Just believe me. I have my own discus tank for last 6 years and i have been using this formula for a long period. You can measure the ph value after mixing the water. When your water ph will be stable then, gradually reduce the use of R/O water.

Try it. Believe me it will work nicely.

[Skip]

Yes, i have been using this stuff for a long time. It is a phosphate based buffer. It is not harmful for discus. It has the real ability to decrease the ph level and keep it down constantly.

But, i will advise you don't use raw tap water for your discus. Use partly tap water and partly R/O water. In RO water we do not get essential minerals. To get those minerals we need some tap water or normal water. The mixture of these two kind of water is awesome. Just believe me. I have my own discus tank for last 6 years and i have been using this formula for a long period. You can measure the ph value after mixing the water. When your water ph will be stable then, gradually reduce the use of R/O water.

Try it. Believe me it will work nicely.

welcome to simply..

this thread is 8 years old.. OP last logged in 7 years ago..

[pitdogg2]

Yes welcome aboard. To be honest your Discus do not need it. Many here have been breeding and raising Discus in plain tap water very successfully. A stable pH is required as well as frequent water changes and they will do just fine. I have been doing this for many many years with plain tap and a pH near 8.0
My pairs are constantly laying eggs 2-3 times month so something is going right.

[MD.David]

Something to consider:
Jorg Stendker talks about water and PH at 5:34 of this video:
https://youtu.be/r8Kb5mfmeeM

Basically he says that if the ph is higher then 8.0 they don't feel well and if it's higher then 8.5 they (eventually) die.
Now I would suggest Mr.Stendker has access to some of the worlds most leading aquatic marine biologist, I would seriously take note to what Jorg is saying.

[pitdogg2]

Something to consider:
Jorg Stendker talks about water and PH at 5:34 of this video:
https://youtu.be/r8Kb5mfmeeM

Basically he says that if the ph is higher then 8.0 they don't feel well and if it's higher then 8.5 they (eventually) die.
Now I would suggest Mr.Stendker has access to some of the worlds most leading aquatic marine biologist, I would seriously take note to what Jorg is saying.

The problem is is that most domestic Discus have never seen pH that low. Back in the early 80's I kept some Red Schmidt-Focke Discus. For water I used pure RO and yes they really came alive when the pH was between 4.5-5.0 colors just popped and they just laid eggs constantly. But that being said it was really hard to sell fry to LFS with a pH that low. It made them hard to acclimate to harder water and higher pH. I tried to acclimate some of my own to tap water slowly but anything above 6.5 they just reacted horribly. So yes while do agree with your comment I know many who are breeding near upper pH 7 and one breeder here in Illinois is very successfully breeding and raising fry in plain old lake Michigan tap water with a pH around 8.5 and they seem to be thriving.