New Heckels...what to do?

[illumnae]

I just brought home a batch of 5 newly arrived Heckels which I got at a steal (equivalent of US$26 for 3-3.5 inch body size). They were introduced to their QT tank 1.5 days back and as of this morning when I went to work, they were still huddling at a back corner. Some have their fins still clamped while i think 2 of them are erecting their fins, but still huddled in a corner. I intend to go back to the store and grab 1 more this weekend. I have a few questions as to what I should be doing.

Firstly, is it ok that they are "huddling", or should I be worried?

Secondly, I intend to put them through a course of Furan-2 followed by Jungle Labs Internal Parasite Guard (Prazi + Metro) followed by Waterlife Parazin (external parasites). Is this ok as a preventive measure?

Thirdly, in light of the 6th heckel i intend to add, is it ok for me to wait a few more days before beginning my medication so that I won't have to do it twice, or should i begin immediately?

Fourthly, one of the heckels seems to have a whitish patch on its tail. Its one of the ones with clamped fins. In altums (which I recently quarantined), this is usually a sign of columnaris...should I be worried?

Fifthly, I know they are eating as the frozen bloodworms I put in before I sleep are gone in the morning. However, I don't like feeding them exclusively on frozen bloodworms and live foods are limited here. How should I get them on a diet of NLS discus formula?

Sorry for the multitude of questions and thanks in advance!

[illumnae]

I put in 6 harlequin rasboras as dithers to make the heckels feel more comfortable...hope they work!

[Apistomaster]

You should begin the deparasite thing right away. These young Heckels should be quarantined for a month or more. Adding a 6th fish will not matter if it is going to be in there a month.
Do provide them with soft acid water and keep them under dim lighting. I would include a couple pieces of wood for them to hide around. It is normal for them to stay in a tight group.
Feeding them only frozen blood worms exclusively at first is fine. Be glad they are eating them and not insisting on live foods. Begin introducing your preferred discus pellet type food in small amounts along with the frozen blood worms after a week. Gradually increase the prepared food and decrease the blood worms. I would always make the blood worm 50% of their diet since you don't have any live foods. I keep them warm at first. 88*F for the first 10 days, then lower it to 84*F.
Begin increasing the lighting 10 to 14 days to whatever is going to be normal for them later on.
The blemishes should heal quickly since you say they are eating well. They always get banged up during the time spent in the distribution chain. Don't use the antibiotics more than 10 days. I never use them on wild discus. Getting food and deparasite drugs in them does more good. Presently, you are only effectively treating for external parasites like gill flukes. try to get some PraziPro or UltraCure PX, medications that you can add to their prepared foods so you can more effectively treat them for internal parasites. That can wait because it can be done both in quarantine or in their final home. What you have started is basically sound.
Heckels are high strung and yours have been through a lot before you got them. They need time in a quiet, darkened environment at first to avoid unnecessary panic attacks. They will always be prone to them. Even once they have acclimated and become quite tame, they will still panic for the slightest reasons once in awhile.

[illumnae]

Thanks for the detailed tutorial Larry I've started the course of Furan-2 as I noticed 2 of the 5 were literally hugging each other and huddling at the corner. One of these was the one with the whitish patch on the tail, and he and his other huddler have developed white patches on their body too...that's bad right? The other 3 looked fine, fins started to erect and while they were hiding, they weren't huddling (hope you get what I mean). It seemed similar to when my altums got columnaris (minus the gasping) so I went ahead and started the Furan-2 course. When I add the 6th, I will do another Furan-2 course.

I intend to QT these guys for at least 2 months and do a full course of meds before introducing them to the main tank. They are currently in a very dimly lit tank with floating bogwood and fine sand. Every few days I'll soak some Ketapang leaves (I'm not sure what the American equivalent is, but it's a leaf that releases acids and stains the water brown...similar to peat but it apparently releases other beneficial minerals/vitamins as well...I think they may be called Indian Almond leaves or something like that) in the water to tint the water brown and lower the ph/softness of the water.

The Prazipro equivalent I'm using is Jungle Labs Internal Parasite Guard. It contains metronidazole and praziquantel. i've used this with success to treat my altums for internal parasites. The external parasite treatment will be my last treatment, and it's Waterlife Parazin. For now, I'm scared to mix medications, so I'll finish the Furan-2 course first before starting on the rest. What I'm intending to do is to introduce the 6th guy on Day 3 of the Furan-2 course. The Furan-2 course is 4 days...and I'll run Furan-2 for 6 days. That way, the 6th guy will get the full 4 day course, while the other 5 will get an extra 2 days...is that ok?

I really hope those 2 sickly ones pull through. What's the standard recovery time for heckels before they start behaving fine/normal?

[quix]

I think other than curing them of whatever sickness they may have, providing an environment they are comfortable with is important too. Lower PH, and shade on top may help calm them down more I think.

[illumnae]

I've done all I could to make them comfortable. The QT tank was set up from scratch just for them.

Furan-2 seems to be working as they are not so huddled up anymore when I got home from work today. Added the 2nd of 4 doses and will add in the 6th guy Sat or Sun, hopefully Sat. Will either do the 6 dose course, or redo a 4 dose course at the end of the de-parasiting (internal and external) if needed. Hopefully by the end of the 4 doses, the white patches will disappear and the discus will be more active!

[Apistomaster]

Hi illumnae,
I have followed many of your posts on finarama.com and aquaticquotient.com regarding your altums so I have a good idea of what you have been through with them and the good advice you have received.
You may be relieved to learn that your Heckels are actually the much easier species to acclimate. Their scrapes, bruises and white edged fins are mostly shipping and handling damage. The fact that you say they all eat frozen blood worms and given the quarantine tank conditions, your Heckels will recover from most of the damage within a couple weeks.
They will take a few months to more or less fully recover from their ordeals within 3 months.
I think by then they will have regained all their body weight they may have lost and will have grown some.
The Heckel Discus is an odd mixture of both being delicate and tough. They have a long term survival rate many times greater than that of Altum Angelfish.
Your use of the Keta Pang leaves is a good practice, especially at first. They will add substances to the water that will alter it in favor of being more similar to their native waters.
I think it is well established that Keta Pang promotes healing perhaps from it's bacteriostatic properties. The white edge on the discus' fins is not Piscolumnaris. It is the beginning of the regeneration of their damaged fins. The white patches on their bodies are bruises and scrapes which are healing as long as they are eating. Usually, the first hurdle is to get them to accept nonliving foods and it sounds like you are past that point. You should see a great deal of healing occur in the first 2 weeks. I think you will be amazed at how fast your Heckels will rebound. Young Heckels normally stay very close to each other. They will not fight as much nor as violently as Domestic Discus of similar size tend to do. They will always remain wild and their flight instincts are easily triggered. It actually may increase among adults; adults tend to be more cautious than subadults. I think you have a pretty good idea of how their tank should be furnished, the layer of fine sand, some wood and a few floating plants. Try to keep in mind they need large areas of open swimming space and areas of sand to hunt food in. They love to search the sand between feedings for bits of food, similar to your familiar Apistogramma spp.

[illumnae]

Thanks for sharing your experience Larry I look forward to my heckels recovering! Haha, I guess I'm just really cautious about newly arrived wild cichlids after my long struggle with altums!

[illumnae]

great news! After the full course of 4 doses of Furan-2, the Heckels are no longer cowering at the back...they swim forward to the front to investigate my presence more often now, and they aren't so scared by my face in front of the tank observing them. The white patches seem to be getting better too. However, they're still skittish when I put my hand in the tank to pick out leftover worms...which brings me to another concern...it seems that their appetite has decreased. They used to finish up 2 cubes of frozen bloodworms twice a day...but now I see lots of leftovers. Is this a bad sign? I have my final dose of Furan-2 today (doing 6 doses instead of 4 due to the extra guy who came in on dose 3...want him to get the full 4 doses so that any bacteria will not develop an immunity). Thereafter, I will start medicating for internal parasites with metro + prazi. Should I be concerned/worried?

[plecocicho]

Glad to here your heckels are starting to aclimatise. Heckles are known to be skittish when it comes to feeding them. They are also, regarding blehers research, least carnivore when you compare them wth other two discus species. Try to feed them fruit with high vitamine content like banana, mango and blackberries. Extra vitamines wil help them enhance their immunity. Post some pics.

[Moon]

I've had my Heckels for about two years now. They go through bouts of feeding habits. Some days they gobble up every thing I offer and some days they just pick on it. I leave uneaten food for about 3 hours. They do eventually eat all of it.
Good luck with yours.

[quix]

A quick question, in terms of feeding fruits, how do we feed? Chop up the fruit into small pieces and throw in?

[Moon]

I tried feeding all kinds of fruit to mine. They wont even look at it. It just lays in the tank and the plecos eat them. One way of introducing fruit is to mix it with bh.

[illumnae]

I was about to ask the same question about fruits quix. Mine have gone from gobbling 2 cubes of frozen bloodworms at a sitting to eating only 1, to now not even eating any even after leaving the worms overnight. I'm getting worried

[blue acara]

Not eating could be a few things... I would get some live food, try them on that. Do they have places to hide? If none of them eat live food then you need to med, some others on this forum can help you better in this.