Heckels bred on a commercial scale?

[brewmaster15]

Now I know why Discus are called
"King of the Aquarium", other than
their beauty and grace; $2000.00
for a fish! Unreal!

thats not why....$2000 is nothing... Some arrowanas go for $10,000 Plus each and come complete with microchips.


They are the king of the aquarium because of the way that they carry themselves...theres a beautiful grace and elegance to this fish that entrances you.... you see it in domestics a bit...but I find it most evident in wilds..... they are like eagles, wolves, big cats, and bears... a symbol of something most will never see in person....raw nature in its most simplest form...okay... enough Poetry...they just plan Rock!

-al

[mckchu]

I agree with what you say mckchu...I like wild Discus because they are "wild". .............Bill

I was keeping African Rift Lake cichlids around 10 years ago ... same "wild" concept applies there too. People are willing to pay 3 or 4 times more for wilds then to get bred fish.

Wonder if anyone did any serious researches on why bred discus, especially the RSG, loses their parents appearance & color pattern in just 1 or 2 generations....

Michael

[brewmaster15]

Hi Michael,
On these RSG thoughts and questions... I think its important to realize a few things.. The Domestic RSG we have today are not bred from wild RSG.. they are derrived from Turqs... I know they are sold as RSG but its misleading IMO.

The other thing to remember is that wild RSG are a variable patterned fish at best... ranging from many spots to almost no spots.. and I suspect that is what you get when you bred them.

hth,
al

[mckchu]

Al,

Yes ... aware of what the commercial guys are calling RSG and the F1 and F2 RSG from wild stock. I have seen some local HK, Taiwan and Japanese photos of RSG from wild parentage ... F1 still looks like wild RSG - in terms of their shapes, the way the fine spots randomly covers the body and anal fin...but soon after, by F2 and beyond, as well as some F1s... the spots becomes more uniformed & regular, bolder and more strips across the forehead and upper half of the body, and all looks like in need of a good work out to loss the fat.

Still - nothing beats the wild stock selected by nature, created by God. I guess its the random-ness that I don't see anymore from bred fish...

Anyway - personal observation.


Michael

[illumnae]

The loss of "wild, natural" patterning in RSGs is probably due to man's innate compulsion to meddle. When a breeder breeds F1 RSG, it's the result of 2 wild fish...not much selection goes into it other than to find the best of what the fishermen have managed to catch. From the F1, the breeder probably selects what he views as the "best" fish in terms of patterns, be it more spots or more green or what-have-you. When these fish are crossed, I think it's natural that the next generation, the F2, starts to look contrived and artificial...after all, how often do you have 2 specially marked fish bred in nature? The next generation, the F3 would be even worse and the downward spiral towards domestic breeds would be firmly in place. I believe that if we have natural selection between the discus take place and not inbreed the stocks we have, we will have further generations looking like the oirginal wilds.

As for fat...how often do you think discus eat beefheart in nature? Us fishkeepers have the tendency to want to pamper and overfeed our fish...while domestics are used to it, wilds aren't and invariably, the overfed wilds will get fat!

[rfeiller]

check out the composition of the water they are from and the food they eat in nature.

try iron and live algae. make all the difference in the world with apistos and discus.

[rfeiller]

Al on the asian arrowanas you are one zero off on a good one. kinda gets ya don't it?