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View Poll Results: What is the preferred method of removing chlorine from tap water?

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  • Strong aeration in aging barrel

    1 5.00%
  • Dechlorination Chemicals

    19 95.00%
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Thread: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

  1. #16
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    If you have ammonia in your tap water there is something wrong with your waterdepartment . But if for one or another reason you may find ammonia in your make-up water , run it over a good airated biological filter before using it . ( for the same reason if you find chloramines in your water you can get rid of the chlorine by airation while you can get rid of the ammonia by biological filtration . Chloramine is a combination of chlorine and ammonia ) Regards Diskees

  2. #17
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Sorry that doesn't work...1st off chloramine is a very stable chem and aeration will not break the chlorine/ammonia bond. It takes weeks to chloramines to break down. So is the hobbyist to have 100's of gallons of water on hand being aerated?

    Next..........The idea of doing a water change is to lower NO3 not add water back that has a level due to having gone through a bio-convertor. Again not very practical what so ever

    While I don't think hobbyists should be chasing ideal numbers with chems, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using sodium thiosulfate or another one of the decent de-chlor products on the market.

    G

  3. #18
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Maybe not practical but I raised quite a few discus this way . If you start with a good tank raised discus ( or discus that have been raised indoors and not in outdoor fishponds ) I must say that discus in general are very hardy fish . Never lost any of mine . But for old age ofcourse . Diskees

  4. #19
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    By the way if you want to see some of my discus , Google Diskees ( freeservers ) . The E-Mail number is no good no more ! Diskees

  5. #20
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Not sure what raising fish has to do with de-chlorinating water...but all water needs to have the chlorine or chloramine neutralized in an appropiate way before it's used on any fish.

    G

  6. #21
    Registered Member Roxanne's Avatar
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    Sorry that doesn't work...1st off chloramine is a very stable chem and aeration will not break the chlorine/ammonia bond. G
    Diskees, If I did what you said my fish would be dead!! I live in Sydney & there is chlorine in our water. I've been through all this and Graham has helped me through it actually. I can't tell you what Grahams exact qualifications are but he is the Water Guru here on Simply..Aeration does nothing if you don't break the bond first. I tried it: after 7 days aerating in a bucket and the ammonia was still there until I added a dechlorinator and the ammonia dissipated...took sooo long though..Chlorine is in Sydney dam water to make it safe for consumption. It bonds to the ammonia and you get chloramine right? I can tell you 1. aeration does NOTHING to move it, I've tried and 2. If you added it to a biological filter without FIRST neutralizing the chloramine, it will kill your bio filter. Maybe you just don't have loads of crap in your water like some of us folk which is good for you...but if I ran Sydney water through a bio filter without breaking the chloramine bond first, I wouldn't have a bio filter for very long..

    To answer the threads question...I use a normal dechlorinator, it also removes heavy metals..nothing else..

    Roxanne
    Everything goes back to the sea....Dylan

  7. #22
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Roxanne . I am a little confused . Do you have chlorine in your water or chloramine ? Chlorine will be gone in one day of aeration . Ammonia will be taken out by a good bioligical filtration ( dry filtration ) . So where is the chloramine commig from ? If there is no more chlorine in your water and the filtration has taken the ammonia out what is there to bond ? Chloramine is hard to get rid of . You may try raising the temperature ( in a holding barrel ) and use UV lighting , or you may try a charcoal filter in combination wuth granulated charcoal and have a very low flow rate through these filters . It will still take a few days to get rid of the chloramines . One advise I can give you after all the discus I raised , and that is the less you put in your water the better it is . If your water is too hard ( at spawning time ) the outer shell of the eggs will harden and the discus can not break out of the eggs . You will see the start of the embryo but it will never hatch . You will see the parents try to help the young ones but they have no success . It looks like they are eating the eggs , but in reality thet are just helping . I built a gadget to overcome this trouble without having to change the whole tank to soft water . Regards Diskees

  8. #23
    Registered Member Roxanne's Avatar
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Quote Originally Posted by Diskees View Post
    ... Do you have chlorine in your water or chloramine ? Chlorine will be gone in one day of aeration . Ammonia will be taken out by a good bioligical filtration ( dry filtration ) . So where is the chloramine commig from ? If there is no more chlorine in your water and the filtration has taken the ammonia out what is there to bond ? Chloramine is hard to get rid of .
    We got Both because there's ammonia In Sydney dam water, they add Chlorine. But, when the chlorine becomes bonded to the ammonia, it becomes chloramine. I don't know how someone can have ammonia and chlorine but no chloramine Because the ammonia is "locked up" by the chlorine, aeration won't get rid of the ammonia, (I've tried it to 10 days undechlored aeration with 0 movement in readings) until I neutralize or "unlock" the chloramine bond so the filter can process the little bit of ammonia left over.....straight out the tap mine is at .25ppm and the same after 10 days undechlored with aeration. I still can't add it to a tank without a dechlor...but going to try the sulphate next...

    Rox
    Last edited by Roxanne; 12-14-2008 at 12:25 PM.
    Everything goes back to the sea....Dylan

  9. #24
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Diskees - where I live in the USA, the local water company adds chloramines into the tap water. Aeration by itself won't break the bond of Ammonia and Chlorine (at least not quickly) and I have to use a chemical (such as Prime) to make the water safe for my fish. I do age the water for several hours (usually overnight) just so things balance out for water changes (the water company also states that they use ferric sulfate and ozone in the disinfection of the city's tap water).



    Walter
    Walter

  10. #25
    Registered Member Roxanne's Avatar
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Quote Originally Posted by Wahter View Post
    Diskees - where I live in the USA, the local water company adds chloramines into the tap water...the water company also states that they use ferric sulfate and ozone in the disinfection of the city's tap water).

    Walter
    They add chlorine and it bonds to ammonia, producing a chloramine bond. Why/How would they put 'chloramine' into the water? To me, the chloramine bond is a state, not a chemical you add. Why would you add a 'chemical' that is a combination of ammonia and chlorine?

    Graham help I'm drowning....

    Rox
    Everything goes back to the sea....Dylan

  11. #26
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Here is an informative article on the formation of chloramine. It doesnt appear to be as simple as to just add chlorine and ammonia to water to produce chloramine, ph is involved.
    http://www.tawwa.org/TW07Proceedings...hat%20Bind.pdf

    Also, I had some questions about this so I e-mailed my water company.
    Start at the bottom and read up. The way I understand it is, hypochlorite(the form of chlorine that my water company uses) is not the chlorine ion that reacts with NH3 to form chloramine and so regardless of the ph chloramines would not be formed in the water. Also, I would aspect that if chloramines did form in the water, Tara would have said something about it since the whole point of my e-mail was to find out if chloramines were in the water. Also, our tap water here is very hard and on the alkaline side.

    Hope all this helps.
    P

    Subject: RE: Water quality FAQ Inquiry
    Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 16:44:38 -0700
    From:
    To:


    You are very welcome.
    Have a nice weekend!
    Tara
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: Patrick
    Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 10:05 AM
    To:
    Subject: RE: Water quality FAQ Inquiry


    Awesome! Thank you so much, Tara.

    Patrick
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Subject: RE: Water quality FAQ Inquiry
    Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 07:43:44 -0700
    From:
    To:

    Hi Patrick
    I'm glad we could help and yes if Tempe did start using chloramines the public would be notified.
    Thanks
    Tara
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From:
    Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:48 PM
    To:
    Subject: RE: Water quality FAQ Inquiry

    Tara
    Thank you for all the useful information and for taking the time to respond to my questions. One more, If Tempe ever decided to use chloramines, would they let their customers know in their water bill?

    Patrick
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Subject: RE: Water quality FAQ Inquiry
    Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:52:40 -0700
    From:
    To



    Patrick
    Tempe has discussed the use of chloramines for treatment, but we don't feel this is best for Tempe at this time. We are very happy with the sodium hypochlorite and UV for disinfection we are currently using. Also we do not need to up the chlorine dose with heavy rains. We are consistent with chlorine dosage.
    Thanks
    Tara
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: Patrick
    Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:48 AM
    To:
    Subject: RE: Water quality FAQ Inquiry


    Thank you Tara,

    Has there ever been any talks of using chloramine? Also, does the amount of chlorine added increase when there are heavy rains or for any other reasons. The reason that I ask is that I have a fish tank and if there arent any chloramines than that makes things alot easier and cheaper for me. Thank you very much.

    Patrick
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Subject: RE: Water quality FAQ Inquiry
    > Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:38:21 -0700
    > From:
    > To:
    > CC:
    >
    >
    >
    > Hi Patrick
    >
    > My name is Tara and I am the supervisor of the water quality
    > laboratory. Tempe does not treat the water with chloramines or any
    > chloramine containing compounds. Please let me know if there is
    > anything else we can assist you with. I hope this information is
    > helpful.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Tara
    > Laboratory Supervisor
    > City of Tempe
    > Water Utilities Dept./Env Division
    >
    ************************************************** ******** *******
    > Name: Patrick
    > Phone:
    > Address:
    > email:
    >
    > Question:
    >
    > Does our water here in Tempe ever get treated with chloramines or
    > contain any chloramine in it?
    > Thanks,
    > Patrick
    + + =

  12. #27
    Registered Member Wahter's Avatar
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Quote Originally Posted by ov10pat View Post
    Here is an informative article on the formation of chloramine. It doesnt appear to be as simple as to just add chlorine and ammonia to water to produce chloramine, ph is involved.
    http://www.tawwa.org/TW07Proceedings...hat%20Bind.pdf

    Also, I had some questions about this so I e-mailed my water company.
    Start at the bottom and read up. The way I understand it is, hypochlorite(the form of chlorine that my water company uses) is not the chlorine ion that reacts with NH3 to form chloramine and so regardless of the ph chloramines would not be formed in the water.
    Sodium hypochlorite = bleach.





    Walter

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite
    Walter

  13. #28
    Registered Member Wahter's Avatar
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Quote Originally Posted by Roxanne View Post
    They add chlorine and it bonds to ammonia, producing a chloramine bond. Why/How would they put 'chloramine' into the water? To me, the chloramine bond is a state, not a chemical you add. Why would you add a 'chemical' that is a combination of ammonia and chlorine?

    Graham help I'm drowning....

    Rox
    Rox - here's an interesting article about chloramine on wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine



    Walter
    Walter

  14. #29
    Registered Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    I'm not sure if there is Chloramine in my water but there is definitely isn't any chlorine registering on the test strips. Shouldn't there be a something showing up since Chloramine is Chlorine and ammonia bound?

    Thanks
    Eddie
    Visit Eddie's Place

    "If you ask for an opinion...don't get pissed when I give you mine."

  15. #30
    Registered Member Roxanne's Avatar
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    Default Re: methods of removing chlorine from tap water

    Hi Walter, how you doin?

    This is from a link off wiki
    ..."Most commercial dechlorinators are based on plain sodium thiosulfate, Na2S2O3, a crystalline salt that generally comes pre-mixed with distilled water, usually in a 1% solution. At this strength, 10 drops (that's 0.5 cubic mm) will neutralize common municipal levels of chlorine in 10 gallons, turning the chlorine to harmless chloride ions and adding some molecules of sodium and sulfur to the water. Unreacted sodium thiosulfate that may be left over is pretty inert and harmless."
    And below from another wiki site link called The skeptical aquarist

    "Chlorine is an oxidizer, which burns a fishes' gills. Chloramines, on the other hand, pass across the gills of a fish and into its blood, where the molecule attaches to the hemoglobin, acting like nitrite to induce methemoglobinemia. The toxicity of chloramines is affected by pH, I'm reading at www.fishdoc.co.uk, with Chloramine-T more toxic at lower pH. Fish stricken by chloramine poisoning are sluggish and respire heavily. But chloramines have been inflated into a bugaboo by some packagers/distributors of various water "conditioners." Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, for instance, characterizes chloramine as "deadly" in corporate literature. Nevertheless, the not-invariably-"deadly" Chloramine-T is currently being studied by the U.S. government as potentially important to fish hatcheries in controlling bacterial gill disease. Studies at UC Davis have inspired widespread use of Chloramine-T to kill pathogenic bacteria and parasites in koi ponds. A professional assessment I trust is this from John P. Grazek: "The addition of sodium thiosulfate will neutralize both chlorine and chloramine. However, ammonia is released when the sodium thiosulfate combines with the chloramines, and this could be a problem to fish where there is little or no biological filtration." (in Aquariology: Fish Diseases and Water Chemistry, Tetra Press 1992). In chloramine, two chloride ions are bound to each ammonia molecule, and that's why you're usually advised to double the quantity of sodium thiosulfate you'd use for chlorine alone. In acidic water, the ammonia released would largely be ionized to its non-toxic form, ammonium. In a planted aquarium NH3/NH4 would be rapidly scavenged by the plants.

    Testing for chloramines. If you're testing for chloramines, make sure the test kit you've borrowed is testing for "total chlorine" or "combined chlorine," not for "free chlorine." A test for "free chlorine" would misleadingly read zero in chloraminated water.

    On the other hand, when your tapwater tests positive for ammonia, this is a sign that your water is being treated with chloramines.

    The Washington DC water utility offers a document "How the conversion to Chloramines affects your fish" generated by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which injects a note of sobriety into this sometimes panic-inducing situation. Being a public agency, the Washington Aqueduct couldn't recommend any commercial brand, but in general they recommended four general methods for neutralizing chloramines: 1. activated carbon in filtration, 2. sodium thiosulfate, 3. commerically-available de-chloramination products ("some simply remove the chlorine, while others 'lock up' or detoxify remaining ammonia"), or 4. a chemical agent plus a biological agent ("bio-filter") to remove the ammonia. (You should already have known all this, eh?)

    If you're depending on 1. filtration with granular activated carbon to break the chloramine bond, make sure the carbon is fresh and the filtration is slow. Since some ammonia is likely to be freed, one way or the other, you have an additional incentive to de-chloraminate before you add water to the aquarium.
    Last edited by Roxanne; 12-14-2008 at 08:42 PM.
    Everything goes back to the sea....Dylan

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