What do you believe to be the most important attribute in breeding programs?

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
I was asked to open a discussion and poll on what members here feel is the most important attribute in a Discus Breeding Program... I'm going to set it up as a poll also but I would like to encourage everyone to give it some thought and participate in the discussion...If you do please share where you are in your breeding programs and the hobby. Are you a breeder? Hobbyist? hopeful breeder?

I think will be a great opportunity to learn from others so lets make it a good topic!

Thanks all!

-al

[brewmaster15]

I've enabled the ability to pick multiple choices here because as I was writing it I thought of my own hatchery and what motivates me.......

I'll ask you to select all that applies to you and then to share with us whats the most important couple of attributes to you...

Thanks all!
-al

[kaceyo]

Interesting question Al. In my situation, which is breeding very small scale for personal pleasure and with limited room, I can't breed for a wide variety of traits so I keep it simple. I'm combining two lines, one chosen for shape and size (Wayne Ng SE's) and the other for pattern (Fish Kings full face spotted). Specificly I look for spotting that includes the gills, forhead and as much of the face as possible. Since the later trait doesn't even start to show itself untill the fish are around 4" and/or 4months old, I spend the early months of their lives looking for good shape, growth and balance. I cull the footballs and very slow growers as they develope to allow myself to keep as many of the quality fish as possible to pick from.
I've only just produced my first F1's after 3 to 4 years of crossing the two strains and backcrossing to improve the spotting and facial spotting in particular. So, in that sence, you could say that pattern is much more important to me than it might be if I were breeding many other strains. Fortunatly the SE genes produce fish with excellent shapes, or at least what I like, which is a tall body but not too much of a Hi-Fin look.
Hopefully I'll be able to keep progressing toward the goal and not end up with lower quality fish than I started with, lol!

Kacey

[Darren's Discus]

A male and female ! for me colour and shape are the most important things.At the moment i have 12 breeding pairs and currently working mostly with reds and albino's.



cheers

[Eddie]

I'm only a hobbyist but I feel that breeding for health and stronger immune systems will benefit every other attribute dramatically. A healthy hearty fish is what matters most. JustMyOpinion but who am I....

Eddie

[Ed13]

This hopeful breeder lol, will look for in a future breeding program (when it happens lol) in this order:
-Breeding for best size and shape of the fish
-Breeding for color(in solid strains)
-Breeding for pattern (in striated or spotted strains)

In order to achieve the above I want to sart with fish that have
-Best size , shape, and nice fin developement
-strong Immune systems, maximum health
-hardiness in broad water parameters

I'll keep a close eye if appears, but won't expect:
-Novelty...something new

[William Palumbo]

for me
a LARGE FAT round classic strain discus with regular color is always better than
a football super colored or super patterned or new even new strain with soso body shape.

size and shape is first

I agree with that statement. Tho I just breed occassionally(when lucky) I always cull out anything that is not round or properly proportioned. Tho the young pairs I have spawning now, I know NOTHING of their lineage. I just will have siblings interbreeding with each other and that's not the best thing to do when aiming for large size and vigor in a Discus. Ideally I would like to cross some of the strains I have with wild stock...to get the shape and size back...along with their hardiness...then try and breed for color or pattern...if needed...Bill

[rfeiller]

through inbreeding and line breeding fertility is decreased as is evidence by the small size of the spawns. the second trait to be the immune system. discus at best have a weak immune system. discus are from black water which has a low pH, they are not subjected to the diseases that are able to survive in water with a higher pH.

it is very important to breed unrelated fish, at least distantly related fish. the strongest animals are always those that are unrelated whether it be dogs or fish.

[MostlyDiscus]

My goals and breeders are simular to Darrens. Size and shape first. I think first generation wilds that are well kept/raised are A1 in my book. Ed

[bs6749]

For me, a discus keeper and will-be discus breeder when I'm done with school, the most important thing is satisfaction! Satisfaction comes to me in the form of producing a "perfect discus" meaning that it would be one that I would be more than happy to own, though it will most likely have a few flaws. Things I'd look be looking for in the "perfect discus" would be size, shape, color, and pattern (if applicable). None of these supercedes the others and in my opinion they go hand-in-hand. When I look for discus now that I know a little more about them, I look for the perfect specimen in terms of those four characteristics.

Here's what I think about the others:

Fin development: To me this fits into shape unless you mean fin development as in producing "long finned" discus for example. I'm not a fan of long finned fish, but I do like high and round fins on my discus, if it fits the fish.

Max Fertility: Not that important to me because a genetically sound pair could produce 30 fry with a cull rate of 5% versus a less genetically stable pair that produces 150 fry with a 25% cull rate. Sure, you'd end up with fewer fish with the "better pair" but you'd be doing this hobby a greater service in my opinion by providing better stock. That stock could be bred with stock from other nice parents to produce consistently nice quality broods.

Max Intelligence: Not that importnant to me as long as the fish isn't retarded. Discus are cichlids and thus show a higher level of intelligence already than most other fish from what I have seen. They take an active interest in what is going on and are aware of their surroundings. It's more about the color/shape/quality of the fish to me that makes it appealing rather than the intelligence. I can't honestly say I've ever looked at a fish and thought about how beautiful it was because of it's intelligence alone.

Disposition: I feel that in a school, most discus will behave rather normally. If one appears to be a bully, then maybe it's one of the few that should have been culled, unless it has great color, shape, etc. and is a good breeder.

Hardiness and Health: I combined those into one group because I think it's up to the hobbyist to provide the best requirements for them to keep them healthy. From what I've learned, discus aren't as fragile (no experience with wilds though) as I once thought they were and they are already pretty hardy. I see no need to further adapt them to water parameters beyond what 90% of hobbyists already currently keep discus in. If you have a beautiful discus that can withstand 100ppm nitrate levels and you let the level get that high, then IMO you are a bad owner, don't deserve opportunity to own such a fish. It's our responsibility as hobbyists to take care of them, since we have taken it upon ourselves to domesticate them. If it was up to the fish I'm sure most would rather live in the wild considering the lack of care provided by some hobbyists. Having hardier fish only encourages laziness in the hobby IMO.

[Ardan]

Very interesting
I do think all of the above play some importance, but as a yet "hopeful breeder" just having the experience of a successful spawn is my number one priority. To see the fry on the parents backs.....
then I would say health first, color and pattern next. (if I ever get that far)
Ardan