Advice on beefheart...?

[FLGirl1977]

Am I the only person that doesn't feed my babies beefheart? I've tried it a couple of times before only resulting in desperate gobbling up (none were thrilled with it) and two discus getting sick from it. One recovered, one did not. After linking the frozen beefheart with the illnesses, I've just decided to throw it away and not use it.

Right now, I feed my babies 4 times daily with frozen brine shrimp, frozen bloodworms and brine flake. Is this suitable for their dietary needs? I've been feeding this a while with no problems, but I just want to make sure they're getting everything they need.

I'm SO scared to try FBH again after my run of bad luck with it before, plus they were never thrilled with it in the first place....

[brewmaster15]

Hi Renee,
Beefheart isn't necessary, though I do use it here.. Have you tried feeding any other kinds of flakes or pellets?

-al

[Eddie]

You don't really have to feed beefheart. It just happens to be a good source of protein and if you make your own, you can add all kinds of good things for your fish, as well as medicines. I actually make a good seafood mix that my discus KILL for. It's all about how you want to feed them and how much maintenance you want to do. Alot of mixes foul the water and you pretty much have to do a WC after each feeding, or at least siphon any leftover. If you can get your fish to eat TetraBits or a good pellet of some sort, that has proven to grow out big fish. Also I have read alot about california black worms and earth worms putting good size on discus. A variety of foods are best and knowing that your fish can eat anything means your discus will surely get nice, big and round.

Eddie

[Joshcat]

Hi Renee',

My husband and I had the same problem as you. Our discus won't touch the stuff, in fact every time we introduced it to the tank they disliked it so much they would hide.

We were advised by some to withhold other food for awhile and maybe out of starvation they would eventually take to it, but decided not to go that route being that they eat everything else we have introduced to them.

They love the Hikari Discus Bio Gold pellets, I do suggest soaking them before feeding it to them so they don't swell in their stomachs. They also like the tetra color bits/granules and the flakes, in addition to a large variety of frozen foods (FBW, FBS, Daphnia, Frozen Discus formula w/o beefheart) as well as live black worms. They do make beefheart flakes, I have never tried them, but I'm considering giving those a shot to see if they go over better than the mixture.

I have never made my own beefheart mix, my husband and I purchased ours from Jack Whattley's hatchery, thinking they probably have the mixture down to a science. Between the fact that it fouls the water like crazy, and it seems like an awful lot of work to go through if the fish don't find it palatable.

IMO a high protein pellet and/or flake would be a good supplement to their diet. Our discus have grown well over an inch in about a 6 week period, seemingly doing the trick of fattening them up.

I'm keeping the lb. of beefheart mix we purchased in the freezer thinking our next batch of discus may like it better. If not there certainly are other alternatives.

Best of luck, Cathy

[FLGirl1977]

What do discus in the wild eat? I mean... when you see discus come straight from the wild, they are beautiful, round and fat usually. So what are they eating?

Not only did my discus not like BH at all, but I just find it unnatural. When was the last time you saw discus in the wild searching out for livestock hearts?

Don't get me wrong, I know it makes them fat.... but why not use a nice frozen brine shrimp instead?

[Joshcat]

I am far from an expert on this subject, and maybe one of the more advanced discus enthusiast's can chime in. But I do have over 20 years experience in fish husbandry.

It's my understanding that wild discus eat a varied diet of worms, crustaceans, larvae, insects and I also believe a small amount of plant matter as well.

Frozen brine shrimp is fine to feed them as part of their diet, but IMO is not nutritionally sound enough to feed them as a sole food source. Beefheart is absolutely not a necessity, but it is high in protein and does promote a desirable growth rate. No, wild discus do not seek out livestock heart, but they do have the ability to feed on a wide variety of foods in the wild, keeping them healthy.

In keeping these beautiful aquatic creatures in captivity for the benefit of your discus' health they should be offered a nutritionally sound diet, not unlike they would have in the wild. If you read the ingredients on the back of pellet/flake foods you will see that they are comprised of fish meal, shrimp meal, algae meal and fortified with lots of vitamins and minerals in addition to being very high in protein generally 47% and higher.

We as humans supplement our diets with vitamins, protein bars, nutrition in a can like ensure, gatorade to replace electrolytes the list goes on and on. With modern medicine we are also living to be much older than our predecessors before us that were unable to supplement their diets when food sources were not available, due to winter or drought etc...

I actually was told by Gabe Posada that cares for the discus at Jack Wattley's hatchery in Miami, that brine shrimp are one of the least nutritionally sound foods we can feed our discus, because they are comprised mostly of shell and water. In saying that, mine love brine shrimp and I feed them frozen brine once daily in addition to, frozen blood worms, pellets, flakes, frozen daphnia which is a water flea, frozen discus food which has shrimp and spirulina, krill and plankton I believe in it.

I do realize that I go a bit overboard in the variety dept. with my fish and by no means am I suggesting you should feed you fish the variety that I do. IMO you should add maybe a pellet or flake food to their diet to insure they are receiving a nutritionally balanced diet. Especially if your fish are still juvenile's.

It's been my experience if you offer your fish a nutritionally sound diet they can grow to be very healthy and live long and happy lives. That is in addition to maintaining their environmental needs, such as clean water free from ammonia and nitrites, proper temperatures etc...

Al posted a thread once that actually had the nutritional break down of many of the foods available on the market, it was very interesting and educational. I'll see if I can find it for you.

Respectfully, Cathy

[FLGirl1977]

I think there has been a misunderstanding here. In my original post I posted that in addition to frozen brine shrimp and frozen bloodworms, I also feed a Brine FLAKE food by Ocean Nutrition which consists of:

Salmon, Brine shrimp, squid, salmon eggs, plankton, krill, and various vitamins along with algae.

The analysis:

Crude Protein..... 54.8%
Crude Fat.......... 13.5%
Crude Fiber........ 0.5%

I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not JUST feeding frozen brine and frozen BW....

I just wanted to make sure that the diet I'm giving them (along with the flake) is adequate.....

[Moon]

In my case it's simple economics. I have over 20 discus and 20 other chiclds. BH is a good value food that put on growth on young discus. My BH mix is not just BH. It has shrimp, fish, krill, spirulina, Naturose and vitamins. It's a well balanced diet and economical.

[Eddie]

The Ocean Nutrition Brine flake is very good, so are the other ON flakes. I personally have not found any beefheart flake that matches up to a single ON brand flake. I think your fish will get plenty of nutrition from ON flake.


Eddie

[FLGirl1977]

Thanks Eddie, that makes me feel better. Thank you to everyone else to, this has been very educational to me.

I was just worried that there was a 'you must feed BH' rule that I was missing...

[MostlyDiscus]

go with what you know. If it has worked for you and you dont mind spending a tad more, then your diet is fine. As some have stated, it is less costly to use BH or TH for large quanities for discus. If it aint broken, dont fix it. Ed

[rfeiller]

make sure if you make your own BH mix to remove all fat, membrane and rinse the blood out. if you do this it will not foul you tank. i have found in the past that BH, shrimp or prawns, and spirulina ground together works well.

a study was done with guppy production using several differnent types of live food and frozen mixes including BH, at the time there were not flake foods that could produce the desire results. Small red earth worms were the winner hands down, they had to be put in water to purge out the soil, but were fed live and or frozen. the guppies were far more fertile on the worms then anything else. And discus are a heck of a lot more prolific then guppies.

i went through 10 lbs (1,000 worms to the lb. of bed run worms) of red wriggler earth worms a week in my hatchery, (at least for several months until my source moved from CA to FL). they were dropped in whole, but can be chopped, or frozen then grated. it works best if the worms are conditioned for a couple of days on fruit puree to push out any manure or soil they might have in their systems. this made them more palatable to the discus. if you practice vermiculture you might try this.
in the wild the discus also eat a fresh water shrimp similiar to grammarus which are found in many parts of the USA.

[Discus-Hans]

We go trough 80 pounds in 10 days, I couldn't survive without making my own food,

Hans

[TankWatcher]

Making is a bit of work, but once it's done, I have enough to last months. It works out a lot cheaper. Mine has beef heart, prawns, salmon, white ocean fish, cooked carrots, raw prawns, blanched spinach, spirulina, NatuRose, pro more & pro growth. If you bind it together with gelatin, it doesn't foul the tank. Luckily, my fish can't get enough of it.

But I really don't think there is a "must feed BH" rule. I think a good quality flake or pellet should do you fine, if you mix it up with other choices for variety.

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

As stated many times before, there is no need for BH. There is actually a discus-specific pelleted diet in the works that is being designed as a sole food source for your fish (with actual scientific research to back it). Feeding trials for it should start in a month or two. Will post updates/findings here on SD first.

-Ryan