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Thread: Discus dying, please help

  1. #31
    Registered Member Discus-Hans's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    I was just thinking, hand feeding, what's your job Jim? A possibility something on your hands, I know, I know crazy thinking but we thought of all the normal things,

    Hans
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  2. #32
    Registered Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    A cracked heater giving out voltage? A pump leaking oil? Hans is right, it's something probably very small. You have to try to narrow it down, not water, not the fish. Where else, the substrate if any, the ornaments (rocks, plants). So strange...

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  3. #33
    Platinum Member MostlyDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    RR,


    Every problem has a solution. Can we get a pic of your setup? How stable is your PH? Stess opens the door to pathogens. Daily temp changes can wear the fish down as well. When in dought GRAHAM it out, if he is willing to walk you through then do it. Ed

  4. #34
    Registered Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    Quote Originally Posted by MostlyDiscus View Post
    RR,


    Every problem has a solution. Can we get a pic of your setup? How stable is your PH? Stess opens the door to pathogens. Daily temp changes can wear the fish down as well. When in dought GRAHAM it out, if he is willing to walk you through then do it. Ed

    HAHAHA LOL, thats a classic...When in doubt ,Graham it out!!!! Thats the best ever!


    Eddie
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    A cracked heater giving out voltage? A pump leaking oil? Hans is right, it's something probably very small. You have to try to narrow it down, not water, not the fish. Where else, the substrate if any, the ornaments (rocks, plants)
    I think Eddie is right. Something is releasing toxic substances that builds up in the fish and manifesting in sequential fish death. Could it be that the plastic is degrading and releasing toxic substances? Some water bottle plastics can degrade with time. Water bottle and other container plastics have a rectangular mark at the bottom which indicates the life of those bottles. There has been cases of human malignancies associated with the overuse of old plastic bottles repeatedly. The plastic plants could with time, and with light exposure to release these toxic substances.
    Just google “plastic degradation toxicity” & “plastic toxic” to see what I mean.
    Last edited by Hattawi; 01-24-2009 at 05:53 AM. Reason: HTML changed to Quote

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    Graham it out

    If it was a toxcin in the water...where did it come from...To kill quickly it would have to be something obivous...hand creams, something spilled into the tank, fumes being pumped into the tank...something poisioning the fish. Large water changes would fix this problem

    Substances that build slowly like heavy metals take time as they have to destroy the kidneys and liver and that kills the fish. Even salt with YPS in doesn't kill quick

    Are there any anaerobic areas possibly releasing hydrogen sulfide or methane into the tank....I doubt it in a discus set up and this set up doesn't back that up......If anyone ever experiences Hydrogen sulfide poisioning, a low dose of PP will destroy the gas

    Nitrite poisioning is a very slow process of suffocation....easily stopped with a bit of salt, but the numbers don't back it up.

    Stray voltage shouldn't kill all the fish as they are not grounded. One getting close enough to a cracked heater may develop a broken or kinked back.

    This is where a micrsoscope would help big time. One of the dying fish could be heavily scraped and scoped along with a gill snip, Any parasite could easily be identified.

    At this point I think the QC is the simplest way to go...it won't hurt anything

  7. #37
    Registered Member YSS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    It seems strange that the water tests performed by you and your water company are giving different results. You did say that there was ammonia detected in the test performed by your water company. Also, wide pH swings between your water changes don't seem right. Unless you are adding something to the water or have some sort of buffer, your source and tank pH should be very similar. I would make sure that you figure out why your water test results are inconsistant. Hope you come to the bottom of the problem.

    Yun-

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  8. #38
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    Quote Originally Posted by roadracr View Post
    ...
    ... I removed all driftwood and rocks and all but two of my plastic plants. ...roadracr
    Did you get the above stuff from a fish shop or sourced somewhere else? like your garden/friend etc...

    Are you using any media that you didn't buy from a fish shop, like sponge etc...furniture sponge in a tank will kill rather fast...just brainstorming...
    Last edited by Roxanne; 01-24-2009 at 10:35 AM.
    Everything goes back to the sea....Dylan

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    Thanks all for the support.

    I've got another one near death this morning - I'll be down to two within the hour. I started with QuickCure yesterday afternoon and again in the evening. I did NOT change the water yesterday as the levels were good and the daily W/Cs did not appear to help. I will do a W/C today.

    Three days ago I pulled all the rocks and driftwood out of the tank and vacuumed up the stuff under them along with my W/C. I also took out two of the four plastic plants. It's now a very bare looking tank. I have included a picture of my tank as it was three days ago just before pulling the driftwood and rocks. I also have a picture of the fish when I still had seven. You can see six hovering in the corner while the seventh is dying on the bottom.

    I do wash my hands before and after feeding with regular soap and water. There is no sign of scum on the water surface.

    I think the water company readings are interesting. While they did register some ammonia in the tank (0.04 ppm), I believe that this is too low to register on my APC test kit. I think there will always be a bit of a lag time for ammonia to be broken down in the bio filters (Graham, is this correct?).

    For the PH, I am clueless as to why the water company reading is so much lower than my own. They tell me that their procedure is to target PH of 7.2 to 7.4. They measured 6.72. I consistently measure around 8.0. Maybe my test kit was on the shelf a long time before I bought it, but I don't think PH is the root of my problem.

    I did, in fact, consider stray A/C voltage as the source of problem. I used and A/C Voltmeter and measured potential from my lighting ballast (ground) and the water. I then systematically unplugged the items that make contact with my water (heaters and my powerhead) and there was no variation.

    I feel I've been thorough, but obviously I don't have the answers.

    Thanks to all for your sincere offers of advice and support.

    roadracr
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  10. #40
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Roxanne View Post
    Did you get the above stuff from a fish shop or sourced somewhere else? like your garden/friend etc...

    Are you using any media that you didn't buy from a fish shop, like sponge etc...furniture sponge in a tank will kill rather fast...just brainstorming...
    Roxanne, I got my fish from Hans. All media for the canisters is from Eheim. The spongefilter sponge is a Hydro-Sponge I purchased from Big Als. The manzanita driftwood I purchased from a guy who supplies other hobbyists (found him on another forum). The rocks are ones I received from a landscaper and cleaned with baking soda and vinegar. Because I could not rule out the driftwood and rocks, I removed them. The fish have been dying at a faster rate since (probably because their ailment has progressed).

    All good ideas. Thank you. Sadly, I've yet to find the "magic bullet".

    roadracr

  11. #41
    Registered Member Roxanne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    You poor thing, how devastating for you..Any chance of getting them out of that tank, even for a little while just in case it's something in there? Your PH going up is a little weird...something happens betwix them and you, similar happens with mine, what the supplier says is in the source is not what I read with my test kits.....If I was at a loss, I would try to source water from somewhere else just to see if it made any difference....a kind neighbour? Or, ask a neighbour if you can test their water, and compare to yours...
    Everything goes back to the sea....Dylan

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Roxanne View Post
    You poor thing, how devastating for you..Any chance of getting them out of that tank, even for a little while just in case it's something in there? Your PH going up is a little weird...something happens betwix them and you, similar happens with mine, what the supplier says is in the source is not what I read with my test kits.....If I was at a loss, I would try to source water from somewhere else just to see if it made any difference....a kind neighbour? Or, ask a neighbour if you can test their water, and compare to yours...
    Roxanne,

    Maybe I'm interpreting incorrectly or not explaining well enough. My tests of PH both at my source (my holding tank) and in my tank are very consistent and my readings have never been outside of the range of 7.8 to 8.2. I use an API liquid test kit for the readings. Since my readings go to the high end of the scale of the regular PH range, I tend to use the High Range PH solution and test card.

    On the other hand, the water company tells me that what leaves their facility starts off at a PH value of 7.2 to 7.4. Their measurement of my tank water was 6.72. Assuming that the water came in at their target (7.2 to 7.4) it is not unusual to think that if I age the water for a day or so, add it to the tank, then normal PH drop could bring it into the 6.72 range they measured.

    I am just curious as to why they would read my tank at 6.72 with their equipment (they use an electronic probe system) and my liquid test kit would be so far different. I don't think we're looking at a wide swing in PH, but measurement differences. I could be wrong.

    roadracr

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Discus-Hans View Post
    I was just thinking, hand feeding, what's your job Jim? A possibility something on your hands, I know, I know crazy thinking but we thought of all the normal things,

    Hans
    Hans, thanks for the kind words in your earlier note. As for my job, I run a company that makes orthopedic implants. We use mainly titanium. I do NOT run the equipment. All the material we use is suitable for implant in humans and the cutting solutions in the CNC machines is a vegetable based biodegradable liquid (we went away from petroleum years ago). Again, I don't operate the equipment, I just run the company. I do take care to wash my hands regularly and do so both before and after feeding and tank maintenance.

    I wish it were something like, "oh I work in a mercury lab..."

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    In your case I would have removed EVERYTHING. Substrate and all decorations first. If possible place fish in another tank. Strip and sterilize the other tank. It may be your sand bottom for whatever reason. Anyways, whatever the out come from this, I would NOT put any more Discus into that tank or set up , until you find the cause of the problem...Bill

  15. #45
    Registered Member Discus-Hans's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dying, please help

    Quote Originally Posted by roadracr View Post
    I wish it were something like, "oh I work in a mercury lab..."
    Jim, I had it once with with a painter, cleaned his hands with terpetine.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Palumbo View Post
    , I would NOT put any more Discus into that tank or set up , until you find the cause of the problem...Bill
    Duhhhhh


    Hans
    I've changed the Discus World.
    Visit our online store at: www.discusfishstore.com
    All advice I give, is because I've good results with it, you're free to copy it. It's not a rule, it's just my way. Ohhhh and don't take me serious, I'm most of the time kidding

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