Discus dying, please help

[Roxanne]

And the only time I have seen PH shoot down that low(aside from drop in buffering capability when messing around with ph in tanks) is when I added detergent to a tank water sample to test if parameters would alter for surfactant residual...what ammonia source did you use? You didn't do a 100% water change after the cycle finished did you?

[roadracr]

And the only time I have seen PH shoot down that low(aside from drop in buffering capability when messing around with ph in tanks) is when I added detergent to a tank water sample to test if parameters would alter for surfactant residual...what ammonia source did you use? You didn't do a 100% water change after the cycle finished did you?

I searched for literally weeks to find a pure ammonia source and finally found "clear" ammonia at Ace Hardware. It was a "no suds" type that others use. The cycle went well and I did a 90% W/C the day before the fish arrived.

Once the fish were in the tank, Ammonia always tested 0 ppm. Nitrite spiked a bit for a few days, so I did daily 50% W/Cs and used salt to protect the fish. I am told that this Nitrite spike is normal (as the Ammonia-eating organisms establish better than the Nitrite-eating organisms when using pure Ammonia for fishless cycling). Anyway, after about three days, Nitrite went to 0 ppm where it has remained ever since.

Nitrate has stayed very low, owing (I think) to the relatively low bio load in the tank and the frequency of W/Cs.

roadracr

[Eddie]

I don't feel PH has anything to do with it.


Eddie

[Eddie]

I'm leaning towards the pump or the hose as mentioned early on. Again, obviously if you are using QC and water that isn't from the storage tank, you won't actually know which one fixes the problem.

Reason why I don't feel it's PH is because I subjected discus to huge PH swings up and down and none have ever died. Now it could be a parasite that kills the fish from the stress of the PH swings. So the combination of the 2 could be the culprit.

Wish you luck

Eddie

[Roxanne]

From 12/19 until 1/14/09 everything was fine. All the discus appeared healthy and ate like pigs. I fed about four times daily – mostly FBW, but I would mix in some OmegaOne Flakes and TetraColor Tropical Granules. They far preferred the FBW (I used both Hikari and San Francisco). I performed 50% W/Cs twice weekly. Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate steady at 0ppm/0ppm/5ppm. PH measures 7.8 to 8.0.

1/14: The discus showed no interest in eating during my afternoon and evening feedings. The next morning, most of the FBW clump was sitting on the bottom uneaten by the next morning.

From that point onward, the fish just did not eat. I would feed and the food would sit. I started doing 50% W/Cs every other day.

I think poison...I just read back through what you said and your fish were fine until they showed their preference for FBW...is it possible the FBW had been allowed to defrost then refreeze? Or, those FBW were contaminated...Oh i'm gonna get it for that one I am sure...You use a water conditioner and if there was extra chlorine or chloramine iin the water, the water cond would have still covered it and your filter would have processsed the left over ammonia......or poison in the water from changes others have stated happened with your weather

[Eddie]

is it possible the FBW had been allowed to defrost then refreeze? Or, those FBW were contaminated

Could be possible, can't rule it out.

Eddie

[Roxanne]

...sorry if I'm annoying you...they were fine for a month...they would have shown symptoms over that month before just dropping dead if it was parasites or stuff....as Paul will tell you, it takes a while for disease to kill a fish, bacteria I think is a different matter. Humans can die from food poisoning...

[MostlyDiscus]

RR,


Are the fish head standing now? Dont know if QC would cause that but I havent heard that it will. Something is affecting your fish internally. Either organs or swim bladder. Have you used any other meds?

Ed

[Mr Wild]

Just to rule this out, could you get your rocks and put some vinegar on them for me? If they sizzle, well bubble they are NOT inert which would be a problem as they would be giving off gasses. All rocks/stones for aqariums must be inert so that no gases are given off. Deoendant on the "dose" of gases it might take some longer to die than others after damage was done?

Just a thought. Kath

[TankWatcher]

This is such a sad thread. I have been a silent follower of your thread, because I haven't felt I had anything helpful to suggest & so many others are already giving great advice. I feel for you RR. I hope the QC is helping. How is the one now that propped himself, after having laid down on the tank floor?

[Graham]

Just to rule this out, could you get your rocks and put some vinegar on them for me? If they sizzle, well bubble they are NOT inert which would be a problem as they would be giving off gasses. All rocks/stones for aqariums must be inert so that no gases are given off. Deoendant on the "dose" of gases it might take some longer to die than others after damage was done?

Just a thought. Kath

Kath just a point...rocks don't give off gases. If they do anything, it's leach chemicals into the water due to what they are composed of. The vinegar/fizz thing just shows that the rock has a base mineral in it, probably a carbonate. Limestone, calcium carbonate is a classic example. A rock with limestone in it would just continually buffer the pH up into the high 7's, low 8's.

This wouldn't kill a fish especially like these guys have been dying.

You're quite right though ...as general statement anything put into a tank should be inert

G

[roadracr]

Well, two more dead this morning and I'm down to one.

The dead ones include the one that made the semi-recovery yesterday. The one that is left doesn't look good - just sitting on the bottom.

Yesterday when I transferred the three to the QT I dosed with QuickCure. I repeated late in the evening.

I'm not sure what to do with my plecos. They are currently in my 150G and cannot possibly produce enough bio load to keep the colonies alive in my two canisters. I think I'll move them to the 20G.

At present I still have no clue as to the cause, thus I can't plan my next step. This sucks!

rr

[Graham]

What a PITA........next step is to strip the whole thing..........Transfer the plecos to a smaller tank

Bring that microscope home tomorrow

G

[Hattawi]

Can plecos be less sensitive than discus? maybe. 9 discus died and the plecos lived. At this point, maybe FBW are responsible as someone suggested earlier. If it is the water then why the plecos are alive?!

I think if you try to feed the FBW that you have to a fish that would eat it, that fish may die aswell. Does it worth a try to get 2 fish? mollies for example, and keep 1 in each of your tanks, feed 1 with FBW and the other with just flakes and see what happens.

[roadracr]

What a PITA........next step is to strip the whole thing..........Transfer the plecos to a smaller tank

Bring that microscope home tomorrow

G

Graham,

I'm not sure what I'd look for with a scope or how to prepare the fish. My technical expertise is not in the biological sciences. Also, how would I preserve a fish until I am able to view with a scope. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

BTW, the frozen bloodworms I used were all individual cubes. They were never unfrozen while I had them, but I certainly don't know their history.

Finally, when you say to strip the tank, how far do you suggest? Do I remove substrate? Run chlorine through the system, killing the bio filters and start at the beginning with a fishless cycle (another 6-8 weeks...)? And with this I still haven't identified the source of the problem. Not sure I have the motivation to continue right now...

rr