The Mythical 8" Discus

[DiscusOnly]

Ruler?

They had paddle when I when to grade school. You even get to sign it everytime you get whack with one. We have come a long way from that mindset but on the other hand, look where we are with the kids today. We went from one extreme to the other.

Anyway, back to the 8" topic.

I think the actual size will always be a debate once you go beyond the 7.5". It's all relative to tank size and what's your stock. You can definitely tell the difference between those 5.5"-6" and the giant ones. One of these days, I may feel brave enough to scoop mine out to take the actual measurement. I still feel that it's stressing the fish out too much and I don't like touch fish.

It's really ironic that I don't eat fish and I can't stand the "fishy" smell. I don't like to touch my fish at all yet I have tanks of them.

Colin's fish looks really nice, especially the shape. I guess that's why it was the "grand champion".

[John_Nicholson]

I know its been posted in this thread more then once, but come on folks netting a fish once in a while does not really hurt a thing. They are not as fragile as ya'll are making them out to be. Yea they might lose a little slime coat, but that is what it is there for. Everyday fish are being netted, put into plastic bags, and shipped around the world. The vast majority of those fish arrive alive. That should be a lot more stressful then simple netting one and keeping it out of the water for 30 seconds. Think of all of the show fish that you see at the ACA. They were netted at home, carried to the show, and often in the net again on the way to the show tank, yet when properly done the fish still looks great. If you don't want to net the fish because it make you uncomfortable fine, but don't blame it on the fish. It really does not bother them all that much.

Just my honest opinion.

-john

[Greg Richardson]

John. I agree.

People got to quit treating these fish like 18th century art objects.

They are FISH!

FISH. Say it again people. FISH!

Stress?
Stress is when your fish sits in water that needs to be changed.
They are swimming around in a toxic dump for hours.

That is stress and you can tell by the way your fish acts.

There is not one discus owner who has had them for years who hasn't waited to long to do a wc for what ever reason and has seen what a stressed fish really looks like.

Net a fish, measure it, put it back.

Look at it. Even if it swims to a corner a short time later it is swimming around like nothing happened.

Fish in bad water? They are acting like they are in bad water all the time.

People lighten up.

One thing to love your fish another to smother it.

More people stress out their fish by adding chemical junk to the water testing the water daily, then ever netting their fish.

[Roxanne]

I'm scared of hurting them, I don't even like pulling the hook out of my dinner's mouth...I suppose if you do it all the time, it's no biggy...but for the rest of us scaredy cats....it can incite intense anxiety....cold sweats, pacing aimlessly around the tank.....sorry, what were we talking about?...

Don't Discus Hans' Jumbo's hit the 8 inch mark?

[mmorris]

John and Greg, we are not on the same page here! I net my fish when I must. I have no qualms about doing that and I am sure it isn't going to hurt them. If I don't need to net them, I am not going to because I have no interest in stressing another animal for no obvious reason. It's not about treating them like art objects. It's about showing respect.

[DiscusOnly]

Think of all of the show fish that you see at the ACA. They were netted at home, carried to the show, and often in the net again on the way to the show tank, yet when properly done the fish still looks great. If you don't want to net the fish because it make you uncomfortable fine, but don't blame it on the fish. It really does not bother them all that much.

Taking a fish and placing it on a towel to measure is a lot more than a simple netting of fish to move them from one tank to another. I can't say I've been to an ACA show or know how they transfer fish. For all I know, they may use a fish trap to transfer.

I don't disagree that "properly" done will probably not affect the fish much but doesn't that take practice? Not doing it is about me..the fish isn't going to hand me back my $250 if it stressed out and die. I have place smaller discus down to try to get a measurement and I all know is that they flop. I can only imagine what that is like with a fish twice the size. It's clearly a 2 person job if someone want some sort of proof via pictures. Measuring it and coming back to report the measurement will result with more posts about wanting to see "proof".

As I stated in the picture from my other post, I placed a breeding cone to use as a reference for the fish size. The 2 discus are in a 24" wide tank.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=68568

[John_Nicholson]

LOL man this is funny......

-john

[KDodds]

John and Greg, we are not on the same page here! I net my fish when I must. I have no qualms about doing that and I am sure it isn't going to hurt them. If I don't need to net them, I am not going to because I have no interest in stressing another animal for no obvious reason. It's not about treating them like art objects. It's about showing respect.

There's a saying in bonsai, "You should not insult a tree more than once per year". The meaning is that, while repotting, pruning, etc. is necessary, it should be done as little as possible, and nothing major (like removing a fish from water and placing it on a towel) should be done more than once per year (or season). I'm with you here mmorris, the difference between 6" and 6½" SL isn;t worth it, to me, to remove a fish from water. If it's from a seller's POV, I'd rather underestimate the size and take less, pending verification when the fish DOES need to be netted to be transported to its new home. Of course, I rarely use nets anyway, most reefers and better reef shops don't, to trap fish. It's MUCH easier herding a fish into a specimen container. Now, grade that container in inches or centimeters and you'll be so accurate as to never have to risk damage/stress to the fish.

[hope]

I know this might be repeating what someone said, but I just put a premeasured piece of black electrical tape on the bottom left corner where they sometimes congregate and left it there. Over a short period of time, my fish kind of forgot it was there and now any time I want to measure them, I just drop some beefheart down there and wait and watch. I know for more serious stuff I would probably have to take them out, but as they are growing I don't think it's necessary if we can find other ways.

[John_Nicholson]

It just amazes me that discus can live in the amazon. You could take a fish and net it every single day of its captive life and it would still be a much easier life then trying to live in its natural environment.....

If you don't want to net your fish then please don't, but until you can provide some sort of proof please stop telling newby's that netting a fish is hard on the fish. Its really not. It seems that it might be hard on you, but the fish really does not care.....Like I said ya'll are making me laugh with this one....

-john

[KDodds]

I'm sorry? The possibility of fin ray breakage, gill rakers being caught, soft tissue eye, body and fin damage from catching or rubbing, especially on towels, etc., and so forth all exist each and every time you net a fish.

[Greg Richardson]

WOW! Political correctness takes over again!

When you net your fish put your hand under the net the second it is out of water.
The fish doesn't flop with support under body.
With other hand already having your tape measure out and tape on hold put it up to the fish.
This should take max time of 5 SECONDS!
Release the fish back into the water.




I think you people with dogs that are suppose to protect your property should retire them.
Put those dogs inside. To much stress being outside.
You stressing them out way to much.

I'm going to have to go have talk with that dog and let him know I had no idea I was dissing him all this time by telling him to earn his keep by protecting my family and property.
How could I do that to him?
Shame on me!

Keep your dogs and cats away from your tanks looking in at those fish stressing them out like that how could you all do that?

BTW. This going up to the tank and sometimes cause of the shadow they spook.

No more of that either. No no!

I want you all to get down on your belly and crawl over to that tank.

Do the soldier crawl and sneak up on them so they don't see your rapid movement walking into the room.

No more traffic in your fish room! What were you thinking?

Better yet paint all sides of the tank!

Yep, that's the ticket!

[John_Nicholson]

Greg your problem is that you are able to look at a situation and apply logic. Don't you know that is no longer allowed in this country? You are suppose to base all of your decisions on emotions. I am sure this is just a temporary situation. I predict that within the next 2 years having an IQ and using it will be against the law.....


-john

[KDodds]

So, you're saying the possibility of causing permanent damage does not exist? Especially in the hands of those unfamiliar or uncomfortable with the use of nets, damage becomes more likely. I can net a fish like nobody's business, as can, I'm sure, you guys. But, many people can not. Herding a fish into a specimen container is not only a viable solution for masses of people, it's easier, and safer. I'd hate to see that multi-hundred dollar, 8" show discus flop face first and hemorrhage. Then again, for many people, their 4, 5, and 6 inchers are of as great or greater value, to them.

FWIW, I work in logic, it's my job, has been for a loooong time. Oh, and I test out at 1 in 100M on most tests, never under 1 in 10M, if that's a factor of import, John, translating it into "points" might be something of interest to you, since you brought it into question.

[John_Nicholson]

KDobbs if you want to talk about logic we can. I have a degree from a major University and I work as a computer programmer. My entire life revolves around the use of logic.

Probably be best to send me an IM. I promised Al that I would not participate in any type of major disagreement on the forum.

-john