What's best treatment for "discus plague" ?

[stanlee]

after re-reading some well known discus books esp on the article from jack wardley, this thing previously referred to as the "discus plague", i realise that once a while whenever i bought some new discus , even from good breeders, and while being quarantine in a separate tank, my house discus also get this similar picture , with the whitish opaque film on the body and fins.
when i check, looks like the pic of the fish in the book referred to as the above.
nevertheless a lot of the discus die esp the juvs whenever this occurs.

even though i never mix with my own discus, it also occurs, perhaps too near from the quarantine tank, but cos of the unnecessary , would like to ask for opinions as to how to best treat it when my own discus gets it next time.
what exactly is the bug and how does it spread without contact with the quarantine tank?
and of course what is the best medication to use, other than lots of salt .
thnks for ur help.

[pcsb23]

I think the term "discus plague" was used to describe many ailments that were not understood. The usual response from discus when they are not well is to turn dark and shed slime, particularly if an external parasite is involved.

In most "cases" that I have come across recently where "plague" has been thought of have turned out to be a bacterial infection. One or two have been nothing more than a costia or oodinium infection, both easily dealt with by F&MG or PP.

I think in some rare cases the "plague" may have been a viral infection, not much we can do here other than to drop the ph, add air and use cattapa leaves and hope.

If there is cross contamination from new fish in qt then a lot will depend onhow rigourous people are when qt'ing fish. If hands are not washed, or the same equipment used then whatever may be in qt is transferred.

[Daniella]

what type of bacteria was it in most cases?

Can we assume that if F&MG does not work after 4 days, that it is not a parasite but rather a bacteria or virus?

what can be cured so quickly with PP bath that is completely stop the progression of the disease but yet F&MG did nothing to help after 4 days?

Will PP bath kill all pathogene bacterias if used at 2ppm for 4 hours?

I think the term "discus plague" was used to describe many ailments that were not understood. The usual response from discus when they are not well is to turn dark and shed slime, particularly if an external parasite is involved.

In most "cases" that I have come across recently where "plague" has been thought of have turned out to be a bacterial infection. One or two have been nothing more than a costia or oodinium infection, both easily dealt with by F&MG or PP.

I think in some rare cases the "plague" may have been a viral infection, not much we can do here other than to drop the ph, add air and use cattapa leaves and hope.

If there is cross contamination from new fish in qt then a lot will depend onhow rigourous people are when qt'ing fish. If hands are not washed, or the same equipment used then whatever may be in qt is transferred.

[brewmaster15]

after re-reading some well known discus books esp on the article from jack wardley, this thing previously referred to as the "discus plague", i realise that once a while whenever i bought some new discus , even from good breeders, and while being quarantine in a separate tank, my house discus also get this similar picture , with the whitish opaque film on the body and fins.
when i check, looks like the pic of the fish in the book referred to as the above.
nevertheless a lot of the discus die esp the juvs whenever this occurs.

even though i never mix with my own discus, it also occurs, perhaps too near from the quarantine tank, but cos of the unnecessary , would like to ask for opinions as to how to best treat it when my own discus gets it next time.
what exactly is the bug and how does it spread without contact with the quarantine tank?
and of course what is the best medication to use, other than lots of salt .
thnks for ur help.

I've deleted all the personal bickering . Take it to Pm if you want to carry it on.


As for the original question....IMO,....There is really no best treatment for "discus Plague".. 99.9% of the instances of "plague' never were/are examined by a pathologist... just labeled..."plague". You could fill a book with reported cures for Plague, and fill another with Hobbyists stories of unconfirmed "Plague".


It is just not possible for anyone in good conscious to advise people on a treatment for this disease as we don't know what the agent is. Deal with each disease instance based on its own symptoms...

Saying a fish has "plague" is really the same thing as saying my fish is " real sick" and I don't know the cause. IMO

hth,
al

[Graham]

Sorry you deleted all that Al...anyone that is willing to make a comment or offer an opinion on a disease, especially if they make themselves out to have some credibility should be willing to offer up what their credentials are. Shooting thier mouth off with out it offers nothing to the board....nothing more than a troll


G

[brewmaster15]

Sorry you deleted all that Al...anyone that is willing to make a comment or offer an opinion on a disease, especially if they make themselves out to have some credibility should be willing to offer up what their credentials are. Shooting thier mouth off with out it offers nothing to the board....nothing more than a troll


G

Graham I am sorry I had to delete it as well...I hate when I have to censor a thread... but I just locked one thread and having the BS spill into this one or any other isn't going to happen.

thanks,
al

[Graham]

Al this will be my last post to this ''Plague'' crap, and the trolls

Everyone has to realize that the symptoms posted in a couple of threads for the ''plague''are no different than the symptoms for any one of a 1/2 dozen different pathogens...


excess cuticle production, fin membrane destructing, heavy breathing , clamped fins, isolation, lethargic behavior and who feels like eating when you sick.......


EDIT going black is a discus thing
G

[Daniella]

Again personal attack. who are you calling trolls? can YOu just write something without constantly doing personal attacks? It's getting anoying and it's totaly worthless.

You think that you want and let people think what they want.

Al this will be my last post to this ''Plague'' crap, and the trolls

Everyone has to realize that the symptoms posted in a couple of threads for the ''plague''are no different than the symptoms for any one of a 1/2 dozen different pathogens...


excess cuticle production, fin membrane destructing, heavy breathing , clamped fins, isolation, lethargic behavior and who feels like eating when you sick.......


EDIT going black is a discus thing
G

[Daniella]

What do you mean they were never examinated? What about all those commercial breeding and hatchery that were affected by this? Don't they did something to find out what was the cause of this disease before they lost all of their fish?

How come there is so little known about this disease?

And why does it smell so bad? Does costia or a parasite smell that bad? Honestly the only thing worse that I have ever smelled was a rotting bison carcasse in Yellowstone NP. Not even the grizzly bears wanted to toutch that one.

Where does this smell come from? Is it an indication that it is a bacteria?

I have seen mention of discus plague even in books, so why do they talk about it if it does not exist? It is very confusing because a few people say it does not exist wereas a lot of other people say it does exist.

So I read here that most cases that were thought to be the plague were in fact bacterias, but which one was more common? I would like to know.

Is it not possible that a virus is underneat affecting temporary the immune system and then all available parasites or bacterias take over? Why so many site talk about a virus?

I've deleted all the personal bickering . Take it to Pm if you want to carry it on.
As for the original question....IMO,....There is really no best treatment for "discus Plague".. 99.9% of the instances of "plague' never were/are examined by a pathologist... just labeled..."plague". You could fill a book with reported cures for Plague, and fill another with Hobbyists stories of unconfirmed "Plague".


It is just not possible for anyone in good conscious to advise people on a treatment for this disease as we don't know what the agent is. Deal with each disease instance based on its own symptoms...

Saying a fish has "plague" is really the same thing as saying my fish is " real sick" and I don't know the cause. IMO

hth,
al

[Daniella]

what about the smell??? but of course you have absolutely no clue what I am talking about.

Al this will be my last post to this ''Plague'' crap, and the trolls

Everyone has to realize that the symptoms posted in a couple of threads for the ''plague''are no different than the symptoms for any one of a 1/2 dozen different pathogens...


excess cuticle production, fin membrane destructing, heavy breathing , clamped fins, isolation, lethargic behavior and who feels like eating when you sick.......


EDIT going black is a discus thing
G

[Graham]

Again personal attack. who are you calling trolls? can YOu just write something without constantly doing personal attacks? It's getting anoying and it's totaly worthless.

You think that you want and let people think what they want.

LMAO go get some experience D....

[Graham]

what about the smell??? but of course you have absolutely no clue what I am talking about.

D go find the Oriental fish market in Montreal, the stall that has ''fresh'' fish, the ones still alive, packed like sardines in the in the 20 gallon tank. Pick one up and smell it, feel it,...what do you think...

G

[Daniella]

geeezzz and you call other people trolls! amazing. In deed, you are totaly clueless as what I am talking about because you do have NO experience with that disease.

LMAO go get some experience D....

[Graham]

I haveto stop laughing long enough to respond to this...daniella how old are you? Did you read anything that was posted in the other threads? Did you read that I experienced this viral problem 25 years or more ago while running a chain of pet stores?

What part of all these threads did you miss



Al close this one too pleaseeeeeeeeeee

[crimson cross]

Graham, you are showing your true colors now....lots of experience I suppose...too bad, 3,362 posts, and it amounts to this...ya, Al, close this after Graham has the last say..lol..