Beneficial bacteria and PH.

[Chad Hughes]

But I only used small amounts to keep the PH from crashing. Now what I want to do is use rain water for possible breeding in the future. I will probably just do a tap/rain mix but wondering how to best stabilize the PH to keep it from crashing. I think the tap may help it.

Eddie

You'll have to evaluate the GH of your tap. Sometimes you'll have more GH than Kh. Here is San Diego tap water has a Ph of about 7.8. GH out of the tap is about 160 ppm and KH about 90 ppm. After I mix 25% tap with 75% RO I get a GH of about 80 ppm and KH or about 10 ppm. The GH in this case is pefect but I have to bring the KH back to about 40 ppm to keep the fish happy and the Ph stable. It may sound like a lot of work, but once you've done it a couple of times it's pretty easy and you really get a feel for your water paramters.

[Eddie]

I remember going to the fish store to check my water. They suggested me this product.

I never used it before.

http://www.shopwiki.com/detail/d=Ken...jumpToFirst=t/

this is basically the same thing like baking soda.

i still have it on the shelf.

Not to sound stupid, so, I need to add this every WC?

Yes, same thing as baking soda just 5 times the price! LOL

You would add a little with every WC. It really depends on how much water you change. Also, the tannins from the wood will eventually stop leaching.

Eddie

[Eddie]

You'll have to evaluate the GH of your tap. Sometimes you'll have more GH than Kh. Here is San Diego tap water has a Ph of about 7.8. GH out of the tap is about 160 ppm and KH about 90 ppm. After I mix 25% tap with 75% RO I get a GH of about 80 ppm and KH or about 10 ppm. The GH in this case is pefect but I have to bring the KH back to about 40 ppm to keep the fish happy and the Ph stable. It may sound like a lot of work, but once you've done it a couple of times it's pretty easy and you really get a feel for your water paramters.

Cool, thanks Chad and sorry to jump in your thread Robby.

[robby ram]

its cool. I get a bigger picture.

[KDodds]

What happens with CC is that the Calcium carbonate (aragonitic) begins to dissolve at a pH lower than 7.8. So, outflow (if in a media container) would be, roughly, 7.8. This, however, can vary if you are using a Calcium reactor (injecting CO2 into a closed media container with low flow through returning to the tank). A small amount of CC in an HOB filter would not risk raising pH of KH too high, though. How much to use really depends on how quickly you want to raise pH and KH and by how much you need to raise them. IOW, you need to experiment with this. I'd start with a ½ cup in a 55 gallon HOB and work from there. You absolutely do NOT want to use CC as a gravel bed or in a permanent place in a discus tank, though. Not unless you want your discus swimming in Malawi type water.

[Roxanne]

Do beneficial bacteria die when the PH is too low?

if thats the case, would the ammonia spike?

No, they don't die. The ammonia exists in a non toxic form when the PH is that low but the bacteria can't convert it to nitrites then nitrates efficiently.
If you have a tank with a ph of say 6 and loads of ammonia, when you raise the ph, the nitrifiers cause what I have unscientifically named a conversion surge, you will see the nitrites rise really fast, then the nitrates, then the ammonia crashes down to nothing really fast...I found crushed coral in the filter works for me, keeps ph really stable..and you can have your driftwood and eat it too...

Roxanne

[Eddie]

No, they don't die. The ammonia exists in a non toxic form when the PH is that low but the bacteria can't convert it to nitrites then nitrates efficiently.
If you have a tank with a ph of say 6 and loads of ammonia, when you raise the ph, the nitrifiers cause what I have unscientifically named a conversion surge, you will see the nitrites rise really fast, then the nitrates, then the ammonia crashes down to nothing really fast...I found crushed coral in the filter works for me, keeps ph really stable..and you can have your driftwood and eat it too...

Roxanne

Sorry Rox, they do die. When they stop converting they begin to die off.

Read about PH in the link

http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

Cheers

[Eddie]

Here is another link from Advances in Microbial Physiology by Anthony H. Rose

http://books.google.com/books?id=Cv1...um=6&ct=result


Check paragraph B. GROWTH YIELD


Eddie

[robby ram]

No, they don't die. The ammonia exists in a non toxic form when the PH is that low but the bacteria can't convert it to nitrites then nitrates efficiently.
If you have a tank with a ph of say 6 and loads of ammonia, when you raise the ph, the nitrifiers cause what I have unscientifically named a conversion surge, you will see the nitrites rise really fast, then the nitrates, then the ammonia crashes down to nothing really fast...I found crushed coral in the filter works for me, keeps ph really stable..and you can have your driftwood and eat it too...

Roxanne

how much crush coral do you put?

Say like, my ph in the tank has been between 6.0-6.2, however, the fresh tap water is about 7.0-7.2 and I notice every time I put new water, the PH goes to 6.8. However, few days later it goes to 6.0-6.2

Now, I attempt to do WC every other day,don't you think that is a big Ph fluctuation? How do I avoid this? I have driftwood in my tank.

[Eddie]

how much crush coral do you put?

Say like, my ph in the tank has been between 6.0-6.2, however, the fresh tap water is about 7.0-7.2 and I notice every time I put new water, the PH goes to 6.8. However, few days later it goes to 6.0-6.2

Now, I attempt to do WC every other day,don't you think that is a big Ph fluctuation? How do I avoid this? I have driftwood in my tank.

Just age your water or condition it in a seperate tank or storage container running either a filter with crushed coral or using baking soda. Doing this will keep your PH stable at all times instead of having it stabilize in the tank.

Eddie

[Chad Hughes]

You may also want to check your GH. If you have a KH this low, it's likely that your GH is very low as well and that can be unhealthy and lead to stress over time. This stress can cause your fish to become ill. YOu may not see it immediately, but like I said, over time it will show.

Best wishes!

[Eddie]

Also,

Post #6

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=58128

Eddie

[Chad Hughes]

Also,

Post #6

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=58128

Eddie

That would work with daily 100% water changes Eddie. I wouldn't trust it with a bare bottom tank. Biotope tanks are perfect for this type of scenario. A heavily planted tank with a Ph of 6 to 6.5 typically does not require a filter. The tank's design (biotope) is so efficient at utilizing nutrients that you will always test "zero" on everything including nitrates.

With discus, I still use power filters to removed debris. You still want to get the chunks out of the tank. I've had GREAT success with these setups. Just my way!

Best wishes!

[Roxanne]

Sorry Rox, they do die. When they stop converting they begin to die off.

Read about PH in the link

http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

Cheers

Eddie, you're wrong. My own experience tells me that. Are you telling me that people who have low ph have NO bio filter? What do you think makes the conversion happen so fast when you raise the ph? They don't die, they just don't convert as efficiently.

Rox

[Roxanne]

how much crush coral do you put?

Say like, my ph in the tank has been between 6.0-6.2, however, the fresh tap water is about 7.0-7.2 and I notice every time I put new water, the PH goes to 6.8. However, few days later it goes to 6.0-6.2

Now, I attempt to do WC every other day,don't you think that is a big Ph fluctuation? How do I avoid this? I have driftwood in my tank.

Hi Robby. If you age your water, and the ph drops, it has little if any buffering capacity, so like mine, it isn't stable. I used to muck around with buffers, this just created more problems. I just use two handfuls of cc in a filter bag and stuck it in a tray in one of my canisters. I don't use anything else.

Roxanne