Beneficial bacteria and PH.

[robby ram]

Hi Robby. If you age your water, and the ph drops, it has little if any buffering capacity, so like mine, it isn't stable. I used to muck around with buffers, this just created more problems. I just use two handfuls of cc in a filter bag and stuck it in a tray in one of my canisters. I don't use anything else.

Roxanne

would putting new water ( high ph) into the tank ( low ph ) will cause fluctuation within a day?

I did water change yesterday and My ph after WC was 7.0.

Today, it went to 6.0. That is a huge fluctuation and my babies show their stress bar.

Though, i did put that ph stable stuff after WC, it seems the PH can't be stabilized.

I have driftwood in my tank just to lower the PH but not that low.

If crush coral could solve the problem, how much crush coral is needed ?

[Eddie]

Eddie, you're wrong. My own experience tells me that. Are you telling me that people who have low ph have NO bio filter? What do you think makes the conversion happen so fast when you raise the ph? They don't die, they just don't convert as efficiently.

Rox

Sorry, Rox, do some research. When PH gets too far in the acidic range, nitrifying bacteria are null and void. Look it up.


Eddie

[Chad Hughes]

Sorry, Rox, do some research. When PH gets too far in the acidic range, nitrifying bacteria are null and void. Look it up.


Eddie

Eddie,

Do you have a reference? I have searched a bunch of data and the only ting that I can find is that below a Ph of 5.5, the rate of ammonia oxidation is severly reduced. I can't find anywhere that says bacteria dies. Death more likely occurs in a biological filter when it's oxygen starved (power failures).

I would be interested to read your text if you could let me know what it is. I just can't find a biological text that states that it dies off.

Thanks Eddie!

[Eddie]

Eddie,

Do you have a reference? I have searched a bunch of data and the only ting that I can find is that below a Ph of 5.5, the rate of ammonia oxidation is severly reduced. I can't find anywhere that says bacteria dies. Death more likely occurs in a biological filter when it's oxygen starved (power failures).

I would be interested to read your text if you could let me know what it is. I just can't find a biological text that states that it dies off.

Thanks Eddie!

Sorry Chad, let me word it correctly, the ntrification process stops. There is no conversion of anything.

http://www.daranikoi.com/koifilter.php

http://www.aquatropics.com/tropical.htm

http://davidcecere.pipidae.org/biocycle2.htm

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...f99b045dd7a9a5

Here is another, read about PH. It's pretty much interpretation of what the word "harm" means. It's not talking about harm the process but harm the nitrifiers.

http://cobweb.ecn.purdue.edu/~allema...-behavior.html



Eddie

[Chad Hughes]

Sorry Chad, let me word it correctly, the ntrification process stops. There is no conversion of anything.

http://www.daranikoi.com/koifilter.php

http://www.aquatropics.com/tropical.htm

http://davidcecere.pipidae.org/biocycle2.htm

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...f99b045dd7a9a5

Here is another, read about PH. It's pretty much interpretation of what the word "harm" means. It's not talking about harm the process but harm the nitrifiers.

http://cobweb.ecn.purdue.edu/~allema...-behavior.html



Eddie

Hey Eddie!

No worries. You are looking at pretty much the same data that I was. I did notice that your last reference mentioned harming the nitrifiers, but didn't mention why or define harm. All the other references, like the ones that I have read, mention that the productivity of the nitrifying bacteria are simply limited or retarded. A rise in Ammonia and nitrite may be visible.

Years ago when I was learning aquaria as a novice, I was taught that the nitrification process would survive a low Ph condition as long as it's oxygen supply was not interrupted. I guess you can relate it to a hybernating bear. It'll sleep through the winter (the low Ph months) and awake in the spring (the high Ph months) as long as it can still breathe.

LOL! Stupid analogy? Anyway, I still can't find any hard eveidence that you can kill a bacterial filter or even harm it from a low Ph condition. I had an experience once where I had a CO2 equipment completely overdose a tank with CO2. The tank was at a Ph of 4.9 when I caught it. I immediately turned off the CO2, the Ph recovered over about 3 hours and I never experienced any issues with the filter. I had some pretty stressed out fish!

The same evening of the event, I checked water perameters just to be sure that all was back to "normal" and all readings were spot on. It was like nothing had happened. I would say that the Ph would have been in the "harmful" zone for at least 6 hours. Maybe it takes more than just a few hours to damage the filter? I have no idea and am really not willing to try. Who has a Ph of less than 5 anyway? LOL!

You and Rox are both right. I think symantics are at play here. The bacteria are not eliminated, only satalled. Expereince shows that they rebound once engaged by higher Ph levels.

Best wishes!

[Chad Hughes]

would putting new water ( high ph) into the tank ( low ph ) will cause fluctuation within a day?

I did water change yesterday and My ph after WC was 7.0.

Today, it went to 6.0. That is a huge fluctuation and my babies show their stress bar.

Though, i did put that ph stable stuff after WC, it seems the PH can't be stabilized.

I have driftwood in my tank just to lower the PH but not that low.

If crush coral could solve the problem, how much crush coral is needed ?

You are going to have to measure your GH and KH for anyone to be able to recommend what you should do to correct yuor water perameters. I have a feeling that you have extremely soft water. Likely a TDS of less than 100.

Best wishes!

[Roxanne]

Sorry, Rox, do some research. When PH gets too far in the acidic range, nitrifying bacteria are null and void. Look it up.


Eddie

Eddie, I don't need to research what I already KNOW to be true, like I said before, what do you think makes the conversion happen so fast when you raise the PH? Are you telling me that the nitrifiers that converted my low ph tank were "dead" and then regrew in one hour? And/or came back from the dead?

Stick to what you know before you tell me I imagined it.

It's obviously soft & unstable ph if it drops like that.

[Eddie]

Stick to what you know before you tell me I imagined it.

Rox, watch what you say because you know I'll snap back. I never said you imagined anything.

Eddie

[robby ram]

Are you guys fighting? Pecking order?

ANyways, Yeah. I have soft water and the KH is pretty much zero. I tried to use that Ph stable crap, it did manage to raise the PH up to 7.0, but then went back down. I have driftwood in the tank.

I just bought a bag of crush coral and I am going to put them in a mesh bag and locate it on the top of the air stone.

I wonder if that would increase the PH buffering.

[Eddie]

Are you guys fighting? Pecking order?

Sorry about that Robby, didn't mean to kill your thread.

Rox and I are like oil and vinegar, when mixed correctly can be great as a dressing but thats it. LOL

Eddie

[Roxanne]

Rox, watch what you say because you know I'll snap back. I never said you imagined anything.

Eddie

Watch what I say? Don't play with words Eddie. It's ok for you to tell me I'm wrong, but I can't tell you when you are wrong? So, I'll ask again then. When I had a tank sitting full of ammonia for 10 odd weeks that would not move, with a ph that would read under 6, and I, under the advice of GRAHAM & KACEY O mind you, raised the ph to 7.2, then tested every few minutes cos I couldn't believe the speed at which the ammonia was being processed. So, now mr smarty pants, WHERE did my nitrifiers come from? Mars? Uranus? .....Your man bag?

[Eddie]

Watch what I say? Don't play with words Eddie. It's ok for you to tell me I'm wrong, but I can't tell you when you are wrong? So, I'll ask again then. When I had a tank sitting full of ammonia for 10 odd weeks that would not move, with a ph that would read under 6, and I, under the advice of GRAHAM & KACEY O mind you, raised the ph to 7.2, then tested every few minutes cos I couldn't believe the speed at which the ammonia was being processed. So, now mr smarty pants, WHERE did my nitrifiers come from? Mars? Uranus? .....Your man bag?

Here you go Rox, sinced you don't take my word, take Graham's.

There is a big difference between having a consistent low pH and and a thriving albeit lower level of nitrifiers and crashing it.

Nitrifiying bacteria like to be in the 7.8 to 8.2 range...as the pH goes down so do thier levels. In the 5's they'll still around and doing thier job but in lower numbers....But if you take the pH and crash it from 7.5 to 5.0 or lower, thier numbers will be dropped considerably...they are dying or dead.

Big difference

G

Et viola

[Roxanne]

What a brat! Don't throw Graham at me from another thread. Answer my question Eddie, or can't you?

[Eddie]

What a brat! Don't throw Graham at me from another thread. Answer my question Eddie, or can't you?

Hey, your the one who put Graham and Kacey in this, I didn't. I have no answers for you. You only hear what you want or what you feel is correct for yourself.

Your the best Rox,

Eddie

[Roxanne]

...
I just bought a bag of crush coral and I am going to put them in a mesh bag and locate it on the top of the air stone.

I wonder if that would increase the PH buffering.

It will keep your ph stable at whatever it is at going in, or thereabouts...mine is 7.4 at the tap and 7.2 in the tank with the CC and doesn't crash anymore...check your readings a few times over the next few days and see where it is at..


hang on, do you mean, are you putting it in the tank?