Question about young wild fish

**bavaria36** · 03-09-2009, 08:03 PM

I was wondering why it is that while we often see young ( 3.5" -4") Heckels for sale I have never seen young wild greens or browns of the same size. Is this a result of selective collecting or are the fish breeding at different times of the year ?

If most fish are collected towards the end of the dry season then I would expect the minimum age of collected fish to be around 8 months but surely the 4" heckels we see for sale are younger than that.

Aaron

**Eddie** · 03-09-2009, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by bavaria36

I was wondering why it is that while we often see young ( 3.5" -4") Heckels for sale I have never seen young wild greens or browns of the same size. Is this a result of selective collecting or are the fish breeding at different times of the year ?

If most fish are collected towards the end of the dry season then I would expect the minimum age of collected fish to be around 8 months but surely the 4" heckels we see for sale are younger than that.

Aaron

They have them them all over the place here Japan. Maybe that's why you don't see any there in the States Aaron. LOL

Eddie

**bavaria36** · 03-09-2009, 08:34 PM

Eddie,

really ? Are they expensive there ? Juvenile wilds here go for around $35-$50 .

If I ever had the chance to start another large tank I would love to start out with some juvenile greens.

Aaron

**Eddie** · 03-09-2009, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by bavaria36

Eddie,

really ? Are they expensive there ? Juvenile wilds here go for around $35-$50 .

If I ever had the chance to start another large tank I would love to start out with some juvenile greens.

Aaron

They run about $90 and up for young wilds. Large wilds are $300. Seen a super nice blue for $350 the other day.

Eddie

**Condor** · 03-10-2009, 01:31 AM

Aaron, Dan had some really nice looking young greens for sale recently. I really wanted to get some but had to put it off.

Adrian

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=67760

**AlexR** · 03-10-2009, 06:52 AM

Aaron,

I think the older wilds are somewhat better to sell for the dealer.

They are much easier to identify, the Heckel are quite easy to recognize to be Heckels with the dark center bar.

But, I am also a fan of your idea to buy juvenile wilds!!!

Here are some picts, I already posted in this forum.

First the juvenile Tefe group...

**AlexR** · 03-10-2009, 06:55 AM

and here the same Tefe after 1.5 years. They are also spawning regularly. Often, wilds shipped as adults, seem to me to old for reproduction :-)

Alex

**AlexR** · 03-10-2009, 07:01 AM

A second group, young brown discus. I couldn't identify the coloration on the juveniles at the beginning. Would you?

**AlexR** · 03-10-2009, 07:04 AM

and the same fish some month later...

**Dan S** · 03-10-2009, 07:16 AM

Hello Aaron,

We get juvenile greens over here in the UK. I saw some RSG's a few weeks ago around the size you mention and they where superb fish with many spots already despite being juveniles, they came from Hudson at H&K. Just wish I had more tank space thats all.

Alex, lovely photos as always.

Dan

**Eddie** · 03-10-2009, 07:20 AM

Definitely, Alex always has the best photos! Great pics Alex, love both strains!

I remember your RSG babies out grew the parents. Did they spawn for your as well, once matured?

Eddie

**erikc** · 03-10-2009, 10:04 AM

I tend to agree with AlexR. If I can I will buy juvenile WC's.

I have a breeding couple of brown Tucurui I bought about seven years ago. they are stiil doing fine

It is always extremely hard to judge the age of WC's and it is preferable to start with a group of juveniles

**bavaria36** · 03-10-2009, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Condor

Aaron, Dan had some really nice looking young greens for sale recently. I really wanted to get some but had to put it off.

Adrian

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=67760

I saw his greens. Actually he had several shipments so maybe I missed some but most were larger than the heckels I have. They were really nice fish.

At one point he did have some small blues though.

Aaron

**bavaria36** · 03-10-2009, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by AlexR

and here the same Tefe after 1.5 years. They are also spawning regularly. Often, wilds shipped as adults, seem to me to old for reproduction :-)

Alex

Alex, real nice fish. I agree with you about the adults. I have a group of adult greens and I suspect they are quite old. One fish spawns every two weeks or so ( but the eggs never hatched ) but the others just seem uninterested.

Of course it could be other things but I noticed that the other fish were the hardest to get to take dried foods. This would be consistent with older fish.

Aaron

**Heiko Bleher** · 03-12-2009, 08:15 PM

Hi guys,

this is Heiko Bleher and I can see that you all are guessing. Well the fact is.
1. Symphysodon haraldi (blue and brown discus and everything in between) are the fastest growing discus in nature, as they have the most food available and they also are the largest of all 3 known discus species, and no fishermen can collect (or find) wild discus during the high water period, therefore you will hardly ever see a juvenile brown, blue, royal blue or similar at any importer or petshop. The collected and sold ones are at least 8-10 moth old (or older).
2. S. aequifasciatus, the green discus (some call the Tefé, but they are found in many other places), can also only be collected only during the extreme low water season and has grown for at least 8 month, not the size of some of the brown and blues, but still normally 4 inches and more body size. Rarely smaller. They have not as much food available as the former, but still more than
3. S. discus - the Heckel discus. This one lives in the most extreme acid waters, poor in nutrition and it is the smallest of the 3 species in nature, almost all the time. Any because it has less food avalable it grows also slower and the fisherman again collect them only in the low water season and than the Heckel discus juveniles are normally 3 inches only (some times little less (depending of the location of collecting/population) and the largest hardly 4 inches (unless they are from the year before).

There you have your reasons why you do not find juveniles in petshops...

all the best from one who should know after 40plus years of research in nature (which I all wrote down - and much miuc more... for this and future generations...).

best regards and keep up the good work,

always

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

PS: There is on my hp some photos of the latest of my green discus collectings from last August - have alook.

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