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Thread: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

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    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Exclamation Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    All,
    Many here know that PP is a chemical to be used with great care, but others may not. I've been asked to suggest that anyone thinking of using PP really take the time to learn about its recommended uses and doses...seeing on how you can literally kill your fish or melt your plants I think its a wise suggestion.. So some reference material for you of the abundant material and advice out there..

    -al
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    and off site references...
    http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/doc...h/potper.shtml
    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA032
    http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/...rmanganate.htm

    Just as a general reference...the work of the University of Florida is as follows..(source...http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA032)

    The Use of Potassium Permanganate in Fish Ponds1

    Andrew M. Lazur2
    Potassium permanganate, KMnO 4 , is a chemical oxidizing agent that will react with any organic matter in a pond including algae, bacteria, fish, particulate and dissolved organic, and organic bottom sediments. It has been used in fish ponds to treat common fish pathogens such as gill parasites and external bacterial and fungal infections. Contrary to some reports, potassium permanganate does not add significant amounts of oxygen to water and can actually decrease dissolved oxygen concentrations by killing algae that produce much of the oxygen in ponds.
    Treatment Rate

    Common treatment rates are 2 parts per million (ppm) or milligrams per liter (mg/L) for an indefinite pond application or 10 mg/L for a 10-minute tank treatment. Actual treatment rates in ponds will vary depending on the amount of organic matter, or organic load, in the water. As with any chemical treatment, it is crucial to accurately estimate the volume of water that is to be treated.
    How to Estimate Water Volume

    Potassium permanganate is an expensive treatment. Therefore, it is important to properly estimate water volume to achieve both a cost-effective and biologically effective treatment. Underestimating water volume will result in an insufficient concentration of chemical, and retreatment would be necessary. Overestimating water volume can result in a greater-than-desired concentration of chemical, and may injure or even kill fish. Pond volume is measured in acre-feet (surface acreage multiplied by the average water depth in feet). One acre-foot is equal to one surface acre with a depth of one foot.
    Estimating pond volume can be difficult when a pond has an irregular shape and varying water depth. The surface area of a square or rectangular pond can be easily estimated by multiplying the pond length by the pond width. Your local Soil Conservation Service or County Extension Service Office can provide assistance in determining pond acreage for irregularly- shaped ponds.
    The average water depth for ponds with a sloped and flat bottom can be determined by averaging the shallowest and deepest water depths. For example, a pond with a sloping flat bottom that has a maximum depth of six feet and a minimum depth of four feet would have an average depth of five feet. Determining the average depth for ponds with uneven bottoms and widely varying depths requires measurement of water depth at multiple locations in the pond using a simple grid or zig-zag sampling approach, in which all areas of the pond are measured.
    How to Calculate Amount of Chemical Required

    An important factor to remember is that 1 ppm (or 1 mg/L) is equal to 2.7 pounds of dry chemical per acre-foot of water. A sample calculation to determine the amount of potassium permanganate required to treat a pond at a 2 mg/L concentration is as follows:
    Example:

    You have estimated a pond to be 5 surface acres, and the pond has an average depth of 5 feet.

    1. 5 acres 5 foot average depth = 25 acre-feet of water.
    2. 25 acre-feet 2.7 lbs/acre-foot = 67.5 lbs of potassium permanganate to obtain a concentration of 1 mg/L in the pond.
    3. 67.5 lbs of potassium permanganate 2 = 135 lbs of potassium permanganate to obtain a concentration of 2 mg/L in the pond.

    A 2 mg/L treatment is usually effective for ponds with relatively clear water. Potassium permanganate reacts with organic matter and becomes neutralized and unavailable to treat the target parasite. The greater the amount of organic matter in a pond, the more potassium permanganate required to achieve the desired chemical concentration. Therefore, a pond with moderate to heavy algal blooms will require a higher treatment rate to neutralize the organic matter in the pond and still achieve the desired concentration of 2 mg/L.
    One popular method of treatment is to begin with an application of 2 mg/L potassium permanganate. If the pond remains pink to purple in color for 8--12 hours, then an effective treatment is assumed to have occurred, and no additional chemical is required. However, if within a 12-hour period, the pond turns brown, then an additional 1--2 mg/L treatment is required, depending on how quickly the pond turned brown. It is recommended that treatment begin in the morning so that the pond can be watched for the next 8- to 12-hour period, and any color change can be easily detected.
    How to Determine Permanganate Demand

    Another method to estimate the amount of potassium permanganate required for effective treatment is to determine the potassium permanganate demand or amount of chemical required to react with all the organic matter in a water sample. This procedure measures the 15-minute demand. This value is then multiplied by 2 to give the recommended treatment rate. The 15-minute demand is determined as follows:

    1. Prepare a 1,000 mg/L stock solution by adding 1,000 milligrams or 1 gram of potassium permanganate to 1 liter of distilled water and mix thoroughly.
    2. Collect five 1-liter samples of the pond water.
    3. Prepare a series of test treatments. Add 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 milliliters (mL) of the stock solution (prepared in Step 1) into the five 1-liter samples. Mix thoroughly.
    4. Wait 15 minutes.
    5. The test treatment that has the slightest faint pink color after 15 minutes is the correct 15-minute potassium permanganate demand. If there is a question as to which rate has a faint pink color, choose the lower treatment rate.
    6. Multiply the 15-minute demand treatment by 2 to get the proper treatment rate for the pond.

    Example:

    A series of 1-liter pond water samples was treated with potassium permanganate stock solution. After 15 minutes, the 2 mg/L treatment turned brown, but the 4 mg/L treatment still had a faint pink color. The 4 mg/L treatment is therefore the 15-minute demand. Multiplying the 4 mg/L demand treatment by 2 gives a recommended pond treatment rate of 8 mg/L.
    How to Apply Chemical

    Potassium permanganate is commercially available in crystal or powder form. it should be mixed with water before use, and then applied evenly over the entire pond surface to ensure an effective treatment. For small ponds (less than one acre), application of the chemical can be achieved by first adding a small portion of the total amount of chemical required for treatment to water in a five-gallon plastic bucket, and then broadcasting this solution over the surface of the pond while walking around the pond. This process is repeated until all of the required chemical is added to the pond. This method works well when the chemical can be dispersed evenly over the entire surface area of a pond from the shore. In larger ponds (larger than one acre), a boat equipped with a large take or container and motor is recommended for distributing the chemical. The chemical mixture can be applied by means of a submersible pump or gravity fed from the container into the prop wash of the boat motor. Uniform application can be achieved by driving the boar over the entire pond surface.
    Precautions When Using Potassium Permanganate

    A few helpful reminders and precautions before using potassium permanganate include:

    • Be sure you have a problem that warrants treatment. Potassium permanganate is expensive. For example, it cost approximately $80 to treat a one-acre pond, with an average depth of 5 feet, at a 4 mg/L concentration. Have your fish properly diagnosed and carefully consider the cost.
    • Potassium permanganate is a strong oxidizer and can burn skin, eyes, and other body parts. It will stain you and everything it touches brown. Always use safety protective gear including rubber gloves, goggles and old clothes. A dust mask is advisable to prevent irritation to your respiratory tract.
    • Be sure to estimate water volume accurately, and disperse the chemical evenly over the entire pond to prevent hot spots, areas of the pond with excessive amounts of chemical.
    • Potassium permanganate can kill algae. Low oxygen conditions can occur following treatment. Be prepared to aerate after treatment.
    • Frequent treatment can harm fish. Wait at least four days before repeating treatment. If fish do not respond to treatment, reevaluate them to confirm the diagnosis.

    Footnotes

    1.
    This document is FA23, one of a series of the Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences Department, Florida Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida. Original publication date June, 1992. Reviewed July, 2002. Visit the EDIS Web Site at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu.
    2.
    Andrew M. Lazur, assistant professor, Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture, Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida, Gainesville, 32611.
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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    Please share any scientific documents related to PP here and also feel free to share your successes and failures with this chemical.

    Thanks ,
    al
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    Registered Member MSD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    Thanks Al, great info.
    Mark

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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    Excellent sticky, Al!

    Here's my PP failure:

    My tank was PP'd twice, a day apart. Two days prior to the PP treatment I did a large WC, approx. 70% and cleaned my filter, wiped down tank walls and floor. On the day of treatment I did another large WC, driftwood was removed and I rinsed my filter. Tank was BB at the time. PP was dosed into the tank using a dropper, I believe at 2 drops per gallon (I had someone experienced in PP treatment helping so I'm not 100% sure). After about an hour to hour and a half, the water turned brownish, which supposedly indicates a high organic load. Treatment was repeated the following day and the water stayed pinkish/violet for about two to two and a half hours. For treatment to be effective, I've been told that water should remain pink or violet colored for about 4 hours. During the first treatment, 5 of my Rummy Noses died. The rest were very stressed but survived. The heavy breathing problem that my Leopard had did not change.

    I've been told that a PP solution is good for quite some time as long as its stored properly, in a dark container not exposed to daylight. However, I don't think its possible that I could have such high organics in a BB tank that had been cleaned, had prior massive WCs and 2 filter cleanings that it interfered with the effectiveness of the PP treatment. I have since read while doing research online that only SMALL batches of PP should be made up at a time as it has a very short effectiveness time. I believe that was the problem with the PP treatment failure in my case. FWIW, I'll stick to products that were specifically made for aquarium use, I have no wish to kill any more of my fish, even if little Tetras that I'd had for years.
    Last edited by poconogal; 03-31-2009 at 05:02 PM.
    Connie
    So Many Fish... So Little Tank Space

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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    Drinking and driving dont mix=Potassium Permanganate and formalin(Quick Cure) DO NOT MIX.

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    Default Permoxyn - PP Treatment by Kordon

    I came across this while researching various meds. Since currently there seems to be an increased interest in the use of PP, I thought I'd post this link. I think its informative, it explains different doses and tests that can be conducted prior to its use.

    http://www.novalek.com/kordon/permoxyn/index.htm
    Connie
    So Many Fish... So Little Tank Space

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    Default Re: Permoxyn - PP Treatment by Kordon

    Hi Connie,


    I use the PP crystals from the pharmacy section.....not sure the Kordon ones are concentrated .


    Cheers
    Francis
    Quote Originally Posted by poconogal View Post
    I came across this while researching various meds. Since currently there seems to be an increased interest in the use of PP, I thought I'd post this link. I think its informative, it explains different doses and tests that can be conducted prior to its use.

    http://www.novalek.com/kordon/permoxyn/index.htm

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    Registered Member poconogal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    Hi Francis. Don't know if they are or aren't, I just posted that link for the info it contains re pretesting, dosage and usage of Kordon's product, which sounds like its a pre-mix. I have no interest in using PP again.
    Connie
    So Many Fish... So Little Tank Space

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    Registered Member MSD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    Kordon is a premixed solution, the concentration is 3.87 ppm I believe, higher then the 2 ppm bath recommended. Adjust the dose accordingly.

    Once burned twice shy I see with PP use. How many ever got sick drinking?? How many gave it up right after?
    Mark

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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    I love this link by Paul.

    http://www.bidka.org/pp1.shtml

    Great info on this Al, I think it's much needed.

    Now let's get one in on the use of Salt!

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    Registered Member poconogal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    Quote Originally Posted by MSD View Post
    Kordon is a premixed solution, the concentration is 3.87 ppm I believe, higher then the 2 ppm bath recommended. Adjust the dose accordingly.

    Once burned twice shy I see with PP use. How many ever got sick drinking?? How many gave it up right after?
    I'd be one of those who gave it up right after. Had a TWO DAY hangover when I was 14. Never, ever had a hangover again.
    Connie
    So Many Fish... So Little Tank Space

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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    This is for anyone who has had trouble finding PP.

    I had a really hard time finding some until I contacted the ordering department of Sears:

    Potassium permanganate
    Part # 3441599
    Division # 42
    Source #625

    Paid $14.59 including shipping.

    I found this in one of the links Al posted on top. I thought I should have some PP on hand in case of an emergency, but at this point would be too scared to use it!

    Hope that helps!

    -Julie

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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    Al,

    Great post

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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    PP is actually quite cheap, I used it often when dealing with my ponds, You can get a lifetime supply for a discus tank for under 15 bucks on ebay in the powder form. It's not for the beginner, however, but when used correctly is a very effective treatment. As was posted earlier, making a stock solution is the way to go, for aquarium purposes I strongly suggest measuring in ml with a syringe that you can purchase for a few bucks at any tractor supply store. Whenever using PP make sure you have plenty of air, and some ST handy. If you do use it in your tank, be warned, you will kill all your benefical bacteria. Better to use it as a dip or a bath in a QT setting.
    Last edited by nc0gnet0; 01-24-2010 at 01:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Using Potassium Permanganate aka PP

    To Make A Stock Solution:

    Throughly wash and dry a 1 liter (1000 mL) poly soda bottle.
    Fill the bottle half full of hot tap water.
    Add two and one-half (2-1/2) LEVEL TEAspoons (about 15 grams) of PP to the bottle.
    Cap the bottle and shake very well for one minute.
    Let the resulting purple-black solution stand for 10 to 15 minutes. Shake occasionally.
    Invert the bottle and inspect the bottom and sides for any PP crystals which have not dissolved. Continue shaking until all have dissolved.
    Top-off the bottle with additional tap water (hot, cold, warm... no matter) and shake once more to mix.


    Dose Table Using The Stock Solution Created Above

    1 ppm = 0.25 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
    2 ppm = 0.50 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
    3 ppm = 0.75 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
    4 ppm = 1.0 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
    5 ppm = 1.25 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
    6 ppm = 1.5 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
    20 ppm = 5 mL of stock solution per US Gallon

    I would never dose above 2 ppm. Never leave a fish being dosed with PP alone, monitor for signs of stress. When active PP will turn the water a pink/purple color. If you have alot of disolved organics in the water, PP might turn brown before the treatment is over. If this happens you will need to redose the PP. Any dechlorinator will de-activate PP, efectively turning it off. Always add oxygen during a PP dose as it can and does remove oxygen from the water (how much again depends on your disolved oraganic load.

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