Challenge Head Stander

[Roxanne]

Hey groovers

One of these beautiful challenge fish is head standing. She and the others were in the bag around 12 hours ish...all the others are fine, except one has a little gill inflammation...water params standard

ph 7.2-7.4
amm 0
trate 10
trite 0
temp 31-32

I acclimatised them over about half an hour, this one was head standing in the bag, at the time I thought it was ok, colours bright & B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L, eyes gorgous, gills gorgous, these fish are as gorgous as the Simply members........even their poops are gorgous...little bit of tail damage from shipping, which is normal..when I opened the bag I nearly passed out from the smell though....

She comes to say hello, in fact she was the first to do that, hang at the front & say hello to me, she swims for a while, then goes back to the head standing...saw her picking at food, but none of them really ate, all their poops are big & brown, except I did see something weird, but when I got back with the pooper scooper, it was gone...looked like a round white egg, probably 2mm in size, not fish eggs...in the poop.

I'm wondering if she left her guts in the plane, if ya know what I mean...air pressure, swim bladder, G forces on take off...I'm guessing

I really don't want to hear that this isn't curable, or to cull the fish....any other thoughts, appreciated...

Thanks

Roxanne

[Roxanne]

PS: no signs of bloat

[frenchie100]

Hi Roxanne,

I don't know if you have already read this article, but thought I would give you the link, just in case you hadn't. The method they suggest is simple and doesn't hurt to at least try, right?!

http://www.discusnews.com/article/ca...imblader.shtml

Let me know if the link works. The link I had kept saying it was broken so I had to google it again.

Good luck, I know how stressful it is.

-Julie

[Roxanne]

Did you know there is a gem named "Julie"...the link works fine BTW

Thank you so much for that...I have dropped the water level down a quarter, and just took some video I will try to post...it's weird, cos she will right herself and swim along with the others, and I saw her go up the top & down to the bottom of the tank, but, it is a tall tank, so water level is deep...I think because she was doing it in the bag, she has the problem, but my water level is exacerbating it as the Qt is higher than it is wide....but Robyn is taking her 2 so it's ok for temporary accom for 5, but the water pressure would be greater at the bottom, yeah?

Will keep you guys updated...thanks again Julie

Rox

[brewmaster15]

Rox,
Is its abdomen swollen at all?.. occassionally when a fish is shipped there can be some bloating and minor to major gut infections ...suspect is residual food sitting in the gut... I've had it happen to fish I have received and many others have also... usually happen in the first 12 hours from getting them...if theres shipping delays and cold water the problem becomes more common.

-al

[Roxanne]

Thanks Al

Abdomen not swollen at all...no bumps along the spine at all...they all pooped on arrival, the bags were smelly but clear, no droppings in any bags..I just fed them beefheart, frozen blood worms, discus bio gold and they went into a huddle, so I left the room and switched on the discus cam and will monitor them..sometimes she acts like she's just admiring herself in the BB which is what made me wonder, but she was doing it when I pulled the bag out of the box and in acclim..

Would you recommend epsom as a precautionary?

Roxanne

[TankWatcher]

Hey Rox, do you remember my head stander (refer PP & formalin issues earlier this year). That fish could right itself to swim & eat, but always did the head standing in it's resting position. Because of my foolish errors, I never got a chance to find if I could do anything to cure the problem.

If any of these fish are still stressed from their transport, do you think they need a little longer to de-stress & recover before another move? What do you think?

[Roxanne]

Ah yes, I remember now about your headstander....maybe we can just see how they go & decide what to do, although they are in a 30 gal all 5 of them...I know we can move them without too much stress if we don't bag them...

got to zip out for an hour, so will check back into SD when I get back...

Rox

[Darren's Discus]

Roxanne,
sorry to hear you are having a problem with one of the fish,The article that link that Julie posted is a good one.I hope it will come good for you,i hate when they have swim bladder problems,keep us posted.


cheers

[TankWatcher]

Ah yes, I remember now about your headstander....maybe we can just see how they go & decide what to do, although they are in a 30 gal all 5 of them...I know we can move them without too much stress if we don't bag them...

got to zip out for an hour, so will check back into SD when I get back...

Rox

I've read through info from the link, starting on page 2 "Part II - Headstanders". Good link & it gives hope.

About the next move of 2 of them. It's just that I thought applying further stress of another move so soon, especially to discus already showing signs of stress, mightn't be the best thing.

We could either just leave them to recover for a week or so. But, even if it's just to create more room in your QT tank, I could temporarily rehouse two that show no sign of stress. Later (after there has been sufficient time passed for recovery for all) we could then do a complete reshuffle of who has what. If the two I am temporarily rehousing are actually the two you like best - you take them back & I will have whichever two you decide.

What do you think?

What do other SD members think? Will another move of 2 of these fish tomorrow be ok?

[Darren's Discus]

I've read through info from the link, starting on page 2 "Part II - Headstanders". Good link & it gives hope.

About the next move of 2 of them. It's just that I thought applying further stress of another move so soon, especially to discus already showing signs of stress, mightn't be the best thing.

We could either just leave them to recover for a week or so. But, even if it's just to create more room in your QT tank, I could temporarily rehouse two that show no sign of stress. Later (after there has been sufficient time passed for recovery for all) we could then do a complete reshuffle of who has what. If the two I am temporarily rehousing are actually the two you like best - you take them back & I will have whichever two you decide.

What do you think?

What do other SD members think? Will another move of 2 of these fish tomorrow be ok?

What the ? English women.

[Rod]

I hope he comes right Rox, he is a beautiful fish.

[Roxanne]

''....I acclimatised them over about half an hour, this one was head standing in the bag,................when I opened the bag I nearly passed out from the smell though....''

That's a bad combination...the fish was stressed out from the crappy water in the bag...which was loaded with NH4, low O2 and pH.........when you acclimatized them you brought the pH back up, poisoning the fish as the pH climbed converting the NH4 into NH3...

Anytime fish are shipped for long periods the bags should be opened and the fish physically removed ASAP to new water.

Give him time hopefully he'll come around

...my online bofriend has shown up....ahh GrassHopper...what have I done? aren't we supposed to acclimatise them like that? I let the bags sit in the water for about 15 minutes unopened to EQ the temp...then filled the remaining space in the bags up with tank water, let them sit in it another 10 and then let them go....are you saying, I should have EQ'd the temp, then as soon as opening the bag, drop them into water that is 7.4 ish?...that sounds like the same thing as the water in the bag hitting high ph, unless you mean that the ammonia in the bag suddenly becoming toxic from the rapid rise in ph and it's not the ph they are going into in the tank that is an issue here?? Help me Grah Master...

Hi Daz, thanks for the support...I just realised there was no heat packs in the box...is that what the newspaper was for? I'm calling you Santa Daz...it was like those gag presents where you keep unwrapping layers of paper and finally get to the end, only to find a pack of tic tacs...those are some whopping big tic tacs though...

I think Robyn's referring to whether or not we should seperate the 2 she is taking from the Jackson5 now or later considering their stress levels...can't you read English man?

Roxanne

[Roxanne]

Hi Rod

Sorry you are hearing this bad news, after all the work you have done...thanks for the good wishes and let's hope for a good outcome. They are all very beautiful Rod...the pics don't do them justice, capture the colour changes etc...and their size, C-H-U-N-K-Y...not that I'd expect anything less from you Rod.(you know you're my 'back up' online boyfriend if Graham dumps me..JJ)..they can see Calypso & Pumpkin in the next tank, wonder if they have a long term memory?? I noticed one of their tankmates when you had them looked alot like C & P..

Thanks Again

Roxanne

[frenchie100]

Did you know there is a gem named "Julie"...the link works fine BTW

Thank you so much for that...I have dropped the water level down a quarter, and just took some video I will try to post...it's weird, cos she will right herself and swim along with the others, and I saw her go up the top & down to the bottom of the tank, but, it is a tall tank, so water level is deep...I think because she was doing it in the bag, she has the problem, but my water level is exacerbating it as the Qt is higher than it is wide....but Robyn is taking her 2 so it's ok for temporary accom for 5, but the water pressure would be greater at the bottom, yeah?

Will keep you guys updated...thanks again Julie

Rox

Thanks Roxanne, just trying to help!

Good luck,
Julie