Challenge Head Stander

[Rod]

Sorry Rox, wish I hadn't said anything now.

Rod, did you happen to read the info on the link from DPH. If you had to take a pick, would you do the "Part 1" or the "Part 2" treatment in this case?

Too be honest my experience in this is extremely limited, though if pushed i would try 1 first and i would likely use an inwater antibiotic at the same time.

[Rod]

...from your "friend" huh?...being the height you are, I guess he wasn't going to say No to you...has he got any more you can steal?...

Rox

lol, well no he never says no, but he is allowed to scoop free babies from here too We look after each others fish when we have holidays! I don't think he still has that pair together, but he has tonnes of discus and fry, i'm sure there would be some special ones there.

[Roxanne]

...i would likely use an inwater antibiotic at the same time. .

...in case there's infection? (Glad you asked him that Robyn)

lol, well no he never says no, but he is allowed to scoop free babies from here too ....

You're both naughty boys then...fair enough...but, I bet more of yours go missing than his...if I was minding your fish you'd have none left cos I'd clean you out lock, stock & water aging barrel...

...update....everyone is alive....if, when I get up there are 18 faces looking at me, it's a good day!...(Still can't believe I haven't killed anybody yet)....

Everyone's colour is good, that's never changed really, even when the box was first opened, none were dark, though it was dim lighting when I took the lid off to acustom them to the light slowly, I could still see colours..imagine being in a darkened room for 12 hours and someone turns on the lights....start a retina fire or two...

No one eats when I am around....how rude....I watched a tonne of beefheart go up the filter before I decided I was going to just feed them and leave them alone...I took to heart the comment in Julie's Link about stressing them out when they are already stressed enough....

"Poseidon" is no worse, ... when I left them all together and I dropped the water level...it was because I was more concerned about freaking the others out by catching him...the problem is, they have all spooked a couple of times and they thrash a bit, lasts seconds really, my other fish didn't like the low water levels when I was doing the metro and they would spook & thrash a bit...so I'm thinking they should go back up to their normal level, and put Poseidon in his own tank next to them for company with the low water...anybody wanna come catch my fish?(I hate this part)....

Rox

[TankWatcher]

Rox, I've got to go out now for a bit, but if you need me to come over & help you today, put a note in this thread. I'll read it when I come back home.

See, Rod said to do part 1, so I shouldn't have said anything. Sorry

[Roxanne]

Rox, I've got to go out now for a bit, but if you need me to come over & help you today, put a note in this thread. I'll read it when I come back home.

See, Rod said to do part 1, so I shouldn't have said anything. Sorry

Don't say that Robyn, & don't apologise...it's a tough call because that article puts tail standing as one thing and head standing as another, but as I know Poseidon isn't stuck half way or near the top, I could tell it was more like an "inflation-deflation" issue as opposed to an inability to deflate issue...Poseidon would rather hang at the bottom in this instance...when the water level was up, 'he' would go up and then on the way down, about half way, went into the slow nose dive...and then now, moonwalking on the bottom of the tank with it's nose...so I know he can/could go up & down...I also don't know if that article is taking into account what a plane ride may do to the organ itself...now I have to re read it for clarity

You're welcome to visit anytime Robyn you know that...in fact the extra input from someone who has seen what I'm talking about would be beneficial to the whole 'debate' for want of a better word...

Roxanne

[TankWatcher]

in fact the extra input from someone who has seen what I'm talking about would be beneficial to the whole 'debate' for want of a better word...

Ok, just back from the gym now. How's your day panning out (are you going somewhere soon?) Don't want to be in the way or keep you from your tasks, but if you think I can help, I'll pop over. Hopping in the shower now - let me know.

[Roxanne]

update....

With a air hose I slowly filled tank back up...Poseidon is going about half way up and then comes back down again...it's almost like he can't make it to the top....gets too tired and has to swim down..although it did look like the others were trying to sit on his head so he couldn't get there.....BUT...the Good News is that..

...I haven't seen him head stand all day!!!!!.....is it too soon to throw a party? I think NOT...you guys are all invited...

Roxanne

Robyn, I missed that post...I'll email you...

[frenchie100]

Wohoo!! I'm on the next plane over, LOL!

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for you1

-Julie

[Eddie]

update....

With a air hose I slowly filled tank back up...Poseidon is going about half way up and then comes back down again...it's almost like he can't make it to the top....gets too tired and has to swim down..although it did look like the others were trying to sit on his head so he couldn't get there.....BUT...the Good News is that..

...I haven't seen him head stand all day!!!!!.....is it too soon to throw a party? I think NOT...you guys are all invited...

Roxanne

Robyn, I missed that post...I'll email you...

I knew he'd be okay.

Eddie

[Roxanne]

...thanks for the positive zen Eddie...

...you're welcome anytime Julie....

guess who is swimming up & down and comes to say hello and doesn't do the mexican head dance any more????...

...Rod & Darren can breathe out now

Robyn, I kept it low, so technically, I did what you said

so SDers, what have we learned here about head standers ?

I'm rethinking the whole shipping deal as far as planes go...I think I'll drive up to QLD before I trust AAE again...

[Australian Air Express are clueless about fish that are BREATHING...they only understand frozen dead ones...but, to them, the boxes all look the same...]

Will post some pics when I can get them without upsetting them..

Thanks All

[TankWatcher]

...I haven't seen him head stand all day!!!!!.....is it too soon to throw a party? I think NOT...you guys are all invited......

You great little discus fixer, you. I love happy endings You have you're favourite all better now. Shhh, don't let the others know you have a favourite already

...Robyn, I missed that post...I'll email you...

Work or home?

...Robyn, I kept it low, so technically, I did what you said

Now, now, now - this is all your doing. You were there & you did all the right things Sorry, we missed each other today.

[Scribbles]

That's wonderful Rox. I'm so happy that Poseiden is doing well.

Chris

[Diamond Discus]

That's wonderful Rox. I'm so happy that Poseiden is doing well.

Chris

Poseidon, what an appropriate name. Congrats on the recovery.

[frenchie100]

So in the end, how long did you keep that water low for? How low was it?

When I got my shipment from Kenny in January, after doing the whole acclimation like I was told to do, my fish freaked out and were swimming almost laying down on the bottom. I called Kenny who said to give them an hour or two to see if they recover. After a couple of hours, they hadn't improved.

That's when I came across the link I gave you ( found it on this forum) and did the Part 1 method. I thought it wouldn't hurt to try it. It totally worked and they were swimming upright after doing the whole procedure a couple of times.

Very happy for you and glad it all worked out.

-Julie

[Roxanne]

'Gas Bladders' according to Wiki...

...gas bladder consists of two gas-filled sacs...has flexible walls that contract or expand according to the ambient pressure....

Physoclist gas bladders have one important disadvantage: they prohibit fast rising, as the bladder would burst.
Physostomes can "burp" out gas, though this complicates the process of re-submergence.

In some fish, mainly freshwater species, the gas bladder is connected to the labyrinth of the inner ear by the Weberian apparatus, which provides a precise sense of water pressure (and thus depth), and improves hearing.

The combination of gases in the bladder varies; in shallow water fish, the ratios closely approximate that of the atmosphere, while deep sea fish tend to have higher percentages of oxygen. For instance, the eel Synaphobranchus has been observed to have 75.1% oxygen, 20.5% nitrogen, 3.1% carbon dioxide, and 0.4% argon in its gas bladder.

The gas bladder (also fish maw, less accurately swim bladder or air bladder) is an internal gas-filled organ that contributes to the ability of a fish to control its buoyancy, and thus to stay at the current water depth without
having to waste energy in swimming.

here's another easy read of the gas bladder if anyone is interested http://www.lookd.com/fish/gasbladder.html

...it WAS interesting G...I knew I had heard the word rete mirabile before in relation to being the reason giraffes don't pass out when they bend over(Thank you Sir David Attenborough)...I hear where you're coming from, I only wonder if there could be a corelation between the ambient pressure of an air plane, going up and down...in water....(I feel sick now)...and the gases within the sacs being affected by ambient pressure. Because he was doing it in his shipping bag...could it be a deformity in some fish that others don't have?

Is what you mean, that altering the water level and therefore the ambient pressure has no effect on the organ itself?....Who am I to question your wisdom GrassHopper, but I thought it sounded fairly logical, but hey, what do I know?... could it be like having piscine version of the benz?

Reflecting on his behaviour, it wasn't just the head standing, although that was most prominent behaviour,there was the moonwalking, the side swimming, swimming sideways along the bottom under the others, it was almost like he had lost navigation, and his balance...he couldn't maintain any position for too long...unlike the head standing black fish about to die and staying in one spot...he couldn't stay in one place and would start moonwalking from his headstanding postion..at some stages he was so head down it looked like he was going to roll right over...when the water level was lowered to only just under his top rayshe would try to head stand, but couldn't maintain that position with his tail sticking out of the water and he would keep trying and then couldn't keep that up...the next day over the space of around 2 hours refilling the tank, observing him, like I said, it was like he could only go half way up and he was getting tired, but he kept trying..within probably 4-6 hours, the head standing stopped....now they put me to sleep last night watching them go up & down, up & down...I feel sleepy now...zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Chronology of treatment(or voodoo spell )All up, 12 hours in the bag, 30 hours in the tank then water level was dropped down a quarter..4 hours later down another quarter...4 hours later, another quarter until top fins only just covered...seemed a little happier within 8 hours, but water left low for 24hours ish, water up slowly over 3 hours, no headstanding all day so within 5 hours of refill, after attempting to get up to the top a few times during that 5 hours, he was ok & swimming up & down...

so from visual onset of symptoms to beginning of voodoo 30+ hours.....from beginning of voodoo to "cure" 40 ish hours...I'll redo the math when I have had more sleep zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

You guys complete me....