sick fish

[Eddie]

«yes I can understand his reason for not disclosing the antibiotics but I don't think the secret part is very nice. Sorry but if I had a friend in trouble, I would not sit back and watch his or her discus die without trying to help if I knew of something that would work.

And I was just pointing out the contradictions. He does not do what he suggest and honestly who here agree with the statement that what ever has the mentioned symptoms of discus is multi parasite infestation? That's nonsense without a scrape and he sort of says so himself. This is a contradiction.

The reasoning behind non-disclosure is to prevent people from improperly using a proven effective antibiotic, rendering it useless. Totally understandable and it's not like he didn't say he was not going to help anyone. His published books have helped more people than you can possibly imagine. Andrew Soh isn't just some article writer. Check his background if you have no idea

Eddie

[Daniella]

I don't disagree that he had experience with multi parasite infestation, as so many things can give those symptomes, but what I don«,t agree with is that what has the plague symptoms is a multi parasite infestation.

It can be more than that. You cannot go saying that the discus plague is a multi parasite infestation, even if those symtoms in his cases were this.

If he would have said something like according to his own experience it is probably a multi parasite infestation, then I could understand but that's not what he says. He says that according to his experience the plague is a multi parasite infestation. that's not true. Not because he has lots of experience with tons of multi parasites infestation that did symptoms like the plague, that does not mean that the plague symtoms is neccessary a multi parasite infestation.

From what I understood, he sort of deny the existance of the plague saying that it is a multi parasites infestation, but I am not english so maybe I misunderstood what he imply by that.

He states "through his experience and experimentation..." How do you know what he did or did not do, what his experience entailed, what his experimentation entailed? How do you know he did not do any body scrapes? Were you there? Just because he did not elaborate -- I'm sure he just did not mention that he did body scrapes, after all, in any article, the writer does not mention every single little detail. You can't jump to conclusions or make wild assumptions like that, that is just plain wrong.

[Eddie]

I don't disagree that he had experience with multi parasite infestation, as so many things can give those symptomes, but what I don«,t agree with is that what has the plague symptoms is a multi parasite infestation.

It can be more than that. You cannot go saying that the discus plague is a multi parasite infestation, even if those symtoms in his cases were this.

If he would have said something like according to his own experience it is probably a multi parasite infestation, then I could understand but that's not what he says. He says that according to his experience the plague is a multi parasite infestation. that's not true. Not because he has lots of experience with tons of multi parasites infestation that did symptoms like the plague, that does not mean that the plague symtoms is neccessary a multi parasite infestation.

From what I understood, he sort of deny the existance of the plague saying that it is a multi parasites infestation, but I am not english so maybe I misunderstood what he imply by that.

You are right about what he implied...that there is no discus plague. Thats what alot of people began to realize.

Eddie

[Daniella]

what? he even says not to disclose the antibiotics to your friends. How his he supposed to help anyone without suggesting some type of treatment? that's not helpfull.

In any case, it's kind of pointless since all antibiotics availabe are probably already used and abused. Like salt, there is no telling when a certain strain of bacteria will become resistant to a certain antibiotics. And I don't even think it is all caused by mistreatment. It's evolution, and bacterias are adapting just like flukes are getting resistance to Prazi. Sooner or later it will happen. It's just a matter of time.

The reasoning behind non-disclosure is to prevent people from improperly using a proven effective antibiotic, rendering it useless. Totally understandable and it's not like he didn't say he was not going to help anyone. His published books have helped more people than you can possibly imagine. Andrew Soh isn't just some article writer. Check his background if you have no idea

Eddie

[Daniella]

and you agree with him that what is called discus plague is a multi parasite infestation? I don't agree. What about bacterias?

You are right about what he implied...that there is no discus plague. Thats what alot of people began to realize.

Eddie

[Eddie]

what? he even says not to disclose the antibiotics to your friends. How his he supposed to help anyone without suggesting some type of treatment? that's not helpfull.

In any case, it's kind of pointless since all antibiotics availabe are probably already used and abused. Like salt, there is no telling when a certain strain of bacteria will become resistant to a certain antibiotics. And I don't even think it is all caused by mistreatment. It's evolution, and bacterias are adapting just like flukes are getting resistance to Prazi. Sooner or later it will happen. It's just a matter of time.

You are right, everything has built up a resistance to conventional over the counter meds/chemicals. Mistreatment is a major cause for it though. Not following the treatment dosage to the letter, adding the wrong amounts, at the wrong time, not for the required time, 2 antibiotics at the same time. There are so many ways to mess up the treatment that it is important to be prepared and use the help of others.

Eddie

[Eddie]

and you agree with him that what is called discus plague is a multi parasite infestation? I don't agree. What about bacterias?

Its the terminology, you would have to read his books. He is talking about bacterias included, they are categorized as one group of parasite. I can't state what it says in his books but you could buy them. Very good books to have, and you would easily understand where he is coming from in his writing.

Eddie

[poconogal]

And I was just pointing out the contradictions. He does not do what he suggest and honestly who here agree with the statement that what ever has the mentioned symptoms of discus is multi parasite infestation? That's nonsense without a scrape and he sort of says so himself. This is a contradiction.

Again, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE DID OR DID NOT DO? There is NO contradiction, he did not elaborate step by step about what he did or did not do, just spoke of his experience and experimentation. This was only a short article. Talk about twisting someone's words to suit there own meaning!

I did not post the link to that article for the same old pollution of Merk's thread. I posted it for Merk's benefit and others, as it is informative and written by someone who has MANY MANY MANY YEARS of Discus experience, I believe somewhere over 30 years, compared to your experience with Discus of what... a few MONTHS?

If you want to debate the validity of Andrew Soh's findings and experience, that's your right and its fine, but please do so in your own thread. Its fine if you want to disagree, I'm sure other Discus experts have their own findings or ways of doing things, but please have some forum manners and respect other's threads.

[Daniella]

I see, that explains it.

I am sure it's a good book but too expensive

Its the terminology, you would have to read his books. He is talking about bacterias included, they are categorized as one group of parasite. I can't state what it says in his books but you could buy them. Very good books to have, and you would easily understand where he is coming from in his writing.

Eddie

[Eddie]

I see, that explains it.

I am sure it's a good book but too expensive

Well worth the money, easily the top discus books I have owned. Definitely up to date with the latest information.

Eddie

[Daniella]

Maybe that fish that was in best shape for a while just was late in catching the disease and will eventualy recover when its immune system catch up.

Looks like the 2 other are developing some resistance to this disease since they are doing better. Maybe the third fish just need a bit more time. I am always amazed at how discus can be fragile and tough at the same time.

I know how much work this can be and how tired I was when I got out of this. It's not fun for sure. Overall it's good news though.

well haven't updated in a while. The 3 fish are still alive. Two are actually doing reasonably well. The 3rd is still struggling. Still has some type of white stuff on him. This was the fish that was in the best shape for a while and then turned for the worst. I'm now down to no medication. Just doing regular WC and adding salt. Haven't had a chance to read the article but I will. I also need to post some new pics as well. Honestly I've had so much other stuff going on the fish have taken a back seat recently. Yes I know, no one on this site wants to hear that but...... I'll get back up to speed soon...

[brewmaster15]

18 Pages of banter and arguments is enough... Multiple edits, multiple warnings... I know the intent is often to help..But I Honestly wish people would take a moment to actually ask themselves this.....

" Is what I am saying going to help this hobbyists?"

"Do I have the experience to offer my help here?"

"Is there someone more qualified than I am to help this person?"

"Am I sure that I know what I am talking about?"

"Am I ready to be responsible for the possible death of this persons fish, If I am wrong?"


Think about it everyone...Good intentions alone aren't whats needed when someone has sick fish....Experience and Knowledge are, and a proven track record of being able to diagnose and help treat a problem.

Sometimes...its best to just say..."I'm sorry that you are having a problem, I hope that someone here can help." Every comment and guess may make matters worse and muddies the waters......and there is absolutely no doubt that Arguing and attacking one another serves no beneficial purpose to the Hobbyist with sick fish. Theres also no doubt that it will get you banned if it persists.

This thread is Locked.

Glenn,
I apologize once again. Please contact me if I can be of help in solving this ongoing Illness..
-al