sick fish

[Eddie]

Hey Merk, just trying to help you out Bro. Its always a good idea to check on the post by members, especially those threads started by a member. One thing to identify that should stand out like a sore thumb, is if 100% of the members posts are in the disease/medication. I would be leery to take any advice from that member, especially if they don't have any experience with discus.

Take care man,

Eddie

[merk175]

One of the sponge filters is new and one is very well established. I haven't cleaned them out since I started the QC treatments. This morning after 3 doses of QC, the fish look even worse. The tank is very cloudy, the white film is getting worse and now on all the fish. fins still clamped. About the only positive thing is they are still eating, though not nearly as well as when they were healthy. I'm lost at this point. Really don't know what to do. I'm thinking big WC (60%), cleaning the filters and adding salt again. Or should I be doing another QC treatment??? Any ideas?

[merk175]

finally got some pics up on photobucket. they're not the best. I'll try to get some better ones today.

http://s695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/merk175/

[merk175]

just checked water parameters: ammonia 0, nitrates 10ppm, temp 80 deg., PH 6.5. starting a WC. Should I treat with QC for a 4th day? How about addding salt?

[Daniella]

I am sorry to hear about this. Try to find permanganate potassium, do a few water change to remove all the quick cure as you cannot mix PP with formanile at all, and use aged water without dechlorinator. Make sure there is no more trace of Quick cure before using PP, this is very important.

make sure you mesure or have someone mesure 1 gram and put that in one liter bottle and use this as a stock solution. it can be 10 gram on 10 liter, as long as you keep the correct ratio to give the correct stock solution. Then you use 145ml of this stock solution for a 20 gallon.

you first make sure you know the number of liter in your tank, then multiply x 2 for getting a 2ppm solution.

I am sure this will help them much more than the quick cure.

It will also stop the shedding of their slime coat but it will knock down the biofilter so bypass it or remove your bacteria media from your filter before you do this.

some of mine kept eating (the new fish) during this as they were less affected but you must do something or they will not get better.

you can try strong salt bath until they roll over but that is probably more stressfull to them than the PP at the right dose.

forget the QC at this point as obviously it did ZIP to help your fish.

Do some phone calls to local hardware store, home depot, sears, ace hardware etc..I am sure one of these carry PP.

One of the sponge filters is new and one is very well established. I haven't cleaned them out since I started the QC treatments. This morning after 3 doses of QC, the fish look even worse. The tank is very cloudy, the white film is getting worse and now on all the fish. fins still clamped. About the only positive thing is they are still eating, though not nearly as well as when they were healthy. I'm lost at this point. Really don't know what to do. I'm thinking big WC (60%), cleaning the filters and adding salt again. Or should I be doing another QC treatment??? Any ideas?

[Daniella]

yes that's exactly how my fish looked like. My red melon still has that white stuff and it's taken very slow time to disapear,but he's cured and healthy now.

In this pic you can see it still has more white patch, but this is going away now, or evening out so less apparent. I am sure it will be back to normal but it will take some time to shed all this stuff.

I have been over this for a week now, and they have huge appetite, getting back their fat.

http://www.pbase.com/zylen/image/112505394/original

My fish that could go dark went pitch black. I am pretty sure at this point that the quick cure won,t help. It did not help my fish at all, quite the opposite.

Do not use salt with PP either so it is best to find PP if you can, and use as pure water as possible, and give them a bath in that. Best is to try to go for 4 hours and you must watch them the whole time. If they gasp for air then terminate the treatment with dechlorinator or a tiny bit of hydrogene peroxyde (tiny tiny bit at the time).

At this point it mighth be the only thing that can help them.

I was not sure and I was afraid to use PP with my fish so I did a test on fish that I liked less and wow, soon after they were all in the stuff. No one died or suffered from the treatment out of my 10 fish, quite the opposite.

The funny thing is that what helped me the most to cure my fish serious disease was what ever I read about the discus plague. This is where I learned about permanganate potassium was the best treatment for it. What is funny is that everybody in here simply deny the existance of this disease saying it's a myth and that it is caused by costia or some other similar parasites. Well if it was a parasites, it would be long gone with 4 days of such strongs med like quick cure, so it must be something else. Bacteria? virus? I am not sure. If you read about the discus plague on the net, you will see that everything fit with your fish, as I found did to mine, everything including the awfull smell. Most people, even professionals, who had to deal with this disease, never managed to identify what was the cause of it. So why it became a myth.

finally got some pics up on photobucket. they're not the best. I'll try to get some better ones today.

http://s695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/merk175/

[merk175]

I did a WC this afternoon (25%) and added salt at 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. Fish look a little more energetic but are now flashing much more again. looks like they're trying to rub the mucus or whatever it is off.... I do see a bit of it laying on the bottom of the tank. thinking of another WC but cannot decide if I should treat them with QC again or if I should give them a break for a day and then try QC again. suggestions???

[seanyuki]

Hi Merk,

Just suggesting filling out the this form.....plus a photo if any.


Please complete the questionnaire if your fish are sick (copy and paste)

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started





2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)






3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. ....Include dosages and duration of treatment.





Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish



5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?



6 Parameters and water source;

- temp _____

- ph _____

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

7. Any new fish/plants added recently




Much easier to understand

Cheers
Francis

[poconogal]

I did a WC this afternoon (25%) and added salt at 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. Fish look a little more energetic but are now flashing much more again. looks like they're trying to rub the mucus or whatever it is off.... I do see a bit of it laying on the bottom of the tank. thinking of another WC but cannot decide if I should treat them with QC again or if I should give them a break for a day and then try QC again. suggestions???

Have you given them any salt dips? I have a friend who's discus developed a gray/white coating all over, even on the fins. We believe it was Chilondella. They were shedding slime like crazy, they turned very dark, clamped fins, stopped eating. They became skeletons with scales covering them. She began doing 2 salt dips a day in addition to doing 2 WCs a day, which she had to do, there was so much slime floating around the tank. The QC and salt dips worked wonders, but they then developed a seconary bacterial infection for which she used Maracyn 2 in conjunction with QC. By day 2 of Maracyn 2 and QC, her fish finaly began eating again. If you want to try salt dips, here are instructions. I recommend you try some salt dips and then put the fish back into fresh, clean water: http://www.forum.simplydiscus.com/sh...ad.php?t=70580

[merk175]

I plan to do salt dips this evening. Can I do multiple fish in the salt bath? I was going to do them one at a time (I have 8 sick fish) but do I have to make up a new salt bath for each fish?

[Eddie]

I plan to do salt dips this evening. Can I do multiple fish in the salt bath? I was going to do them one at a time (I have 8 sick fish) but do I have to make up a new salt bath for each fish?

It depends on their size and size of the container or tank. I've done 2 fish a 2.5 gallon tank with no issues.

Eddie

[poconogal]

It depends on their size and size of the container or tank. I've done 2 fish a 2.5 gallon tank with no issues.

Eddie

Ditto. And I don't think you need to make a fresh solution for each fish, unless the salt dip water gets really gunked up with slime then you might want to. The concentration of salt in a dip is supposed to kill any parasites.

[merk175]

plan to use a 5 gallon bucket with maybe 3 or 4 gallons of water and 1 tablespoon of salt per gallon....

[alexh]

I'll tell you guys and girls that disease it call slime or blackening and it is the meanness disease that discus can get.

[Disgirl]

Would this be what I have heard referred to as "Discus Plague"? Don't know if such a thing exists but I do know that about 20 yrs. ago it hit the angelfish industry and hobby hard. Almost wiped out the whole lot of them. I did not have it but heard of many who did. Is it a similar disease? And WHAT do we use to treat it if it shows up???? QC or PP? Someone knowledgeable please let us all know so we will be prepared. I have followed the recent PP saga on this forum and am confused. Thanks!
Barbara