Water Quality = Confusion? Maybe...

[Jhhnn]

From Al-

I will always advise someone new to discus to change as much water as they can using water thats the same parameters...You need a starting point....then you can decrease or increase water changes and find the sweet spot for your particular tank...by that I mean find what works best for your tank...

Agreed, particularly wrt the first part. Better safe than sorry, particularly in the beginning.

Even though my experience level is a lot less, I think it's important to encourage newcomers to create a water changing system that they can live with, that they'll actually use, that's relatively easy and painless. Go the little bit extra that it takes before you even have discus, so as to increase the chances of success... It's a no-regret kind of deal...

[Disgirl]

I tried to keep discus about 20 yrs. ago. A pair even spawned and gave me about 20 babies to sell. BUT they were all stunted, parents and young. Even though they were in a BB tank I only changed water once or twice a week, maybe 25% at a time. I thought a 4" discus was fully grown! But now that I am keeping them again and learning here I do 50% wc a day and WOW what a difference. No comparison at all. My discus from 20 yrs. ago were Wattley Turqs,beautiful but stunted, which I did not know. I am now a believer in those big and often wc's for young discus, plus a BB tank and high quality foods, fed often and with a higher temp of 86-88. Now I know the difference.
Barb

[Don Trinko]

I think Al hit on it. Someone who is raising fry will think that changing 50% twice a week will not work and they are correct. Someone who has a large tank with adult discus will think that 100% ever day is excesive and they are correct.
We need to be able to change our methods if they do not work. I change 50% twice a week. All my fish are at least 2 years old and some are spawning in my comunity tank. If I ever decide to raise fry I can assure you I will be changing a lot more water! All IMO; Don T.

[DiscusOnly]

I personally don't get what the core issue here.... its always been the probelm in the discus community that topics like WCs get heated.... You can't make a claim that X amount of water change is optimum...Its different for every tank ..depends on so many variables...
stocking levels,tank volumes,planted or not, foods fed,filtration, water parameters like pH, ages of fish, numbers of feedings, etc..etc....

What you can do is start at X amount of water changes that you feel you can do.....try a little more and see how the fish act, monitor what ever parameters you hold dear, maybe try a little less....do the same. In time you'll find what works best.

I have over 2500 gallons here.. spread out among 30gals, 55gal,75 gal and 125 gals... Each tank is different...and I treat them all different.. Some get 100% daily..those are my fry tanks, some get 30% everyother....those are usually my breeders, my planted tank gets weekly, my grows-outs all vary. I use hydros and aquaclears...my water is tap water from a well...pH 7.2-7.6

I will always advise someone new to discus to change as much water as they can using water thats the same parameters...You need a starting point....then you can decrease or increase water changes and find the sweet spot for your particular tank...by that I mean find what works best for your tank... Its not science, though science is there if anyone wants to plot their water parameters daily and research aquaculture papers... It doesn't have to be hardcore science...it does have to be hardcore experience though... People have to try things out for themselves..

Some here can do 100% daily without aging the water..I do that and I'll kill discus....I used to be able to do it...then I moved from city water to well water with a ton of dissolved gasses in the water...initially I tried keeping things as I had done at my old house...resulted in stressed fish and dead fish...so I modified things...tried aging and now I can do 100% water changes..but it needs to be aged....unfortunately, being on a well..limits me...so again I experimented and found what works best...FOR ME.

This should be on a sticky that folks can refer to regarding WC.

[Eddie]

I agree!

Eddie

[David Rose]

Thanks Al for your great post and all those that have contributed to discussing their individual issues . I continue to be amazed at the great folks on the SD forum that are experienced and willing to take their valuble time to help.

I have picked up some great information and will make the best of it. It's very much appreciated!

Regards,
David

[Cooldadddyfunk286]

well said Al, I just want some eggs already!!! ...I really cant wait for my first spawn...im gonna throw a party, and your all invited ...sorry to get off topic. but what is true, is that everyone needs to find what works for you...these days some of us are so busy with our lives its tuff to change as much water as we would like. what i REALLY need to do is clean my canisters!!! talk about water quality.

[Tito]

Thank you evrybody for participating in this thread. Yes I did come way with something useful and helpful. I have not changed my water change regiment. 125 Gallon Tank with substrate and manzanita wood some grass and valisneria. Water change comes from tap at 6.8 pH drops to 6.4 pH because of the wood. Water is changed 50% every third day. Young adults all 4" plus but two fish which I think I can now safely say are stunted. These two fish were very reclusive, very picky eaters and when they eat they eat very little food. I believe their behaviour is what stunted them ( they were like this since day one) Many of the fish relished worms but I am allergic and removed them from the diet - this may have caused the other two to slow in eating but say la vie). The rest of my fish are growing and developing wonderfully. Two pairs have formed - not that I wanted them to but nature dictates. One show tank so I don't have the luxury of seperating males from females. One pair has already produced wigglers. At least I know I can breed if I opt to.

Thank you Al for the personal attention.

Great thread hope newbies learn something from it. The thread was from the outset written with newbies in mind and the inpact certain water change statements can have on someone who wants to try out Discus for the first time. Not necesarilly fish for the first time but Discus for the first time. I can say that as an experienced hobbyist in salt water, africans, community, Sa and CA's (not Discus) reading up in a Discus Forum can be confusing since many of the practices and the extremes of them are not applied to other types of fish keeping. But I can only guess that it works though I have my doubts and suspicions.

To all newbies take everything with a grain of salt and monitor your fish and tank just like Al said - every tank is different.

[snoopy65]

Being a complete newbie to discus, I can't really comment on what discus need, but I have kept different species of tropical fish for years and this is my take. When ever I set up a new tank, I monitor it's water params daily. If the nitrates move up or ph moves down, I do a water change. If they don't, I wait until the next day and check again, and do a water change when my nitrates hit 10 or my ph changes. I write down the dates of the water changes for 2 months. After that, I can pretty much tell when a water change is needed on any particular tank. My tank that has only tetras and pygmy cories in it-needs a change once every 2 weeks. My CA/ Madagascar Tank every 3 days, My Bridgesii Snail tank, every other day, My Marble Convict tank depends on if there are fry or not. Each tank is different because of the bioload of the inhabitants. So now that I have my discus, while they are small, daily. Once they are bigger, I will do the same for their tank as I do for my others. The idea is that they should be able to live in a clean living space. If that means you have to do water changes daily or weekly or anything else, then that is what you need to do.

[Don Trinko]

snoopy65; IMO; I think you have the correct idea. (different fish/situations require different wc) One important consideration is that discus do need cleaner water that most tropicals. Better to many wc than to few as long as the wc water is similar to tank water.
I'm certainly no expert but one thing I would suggest to anyone wanting to keep discus is to plan ahead for more WC than you think you need.
I had Angels for years with only occasioal wc and had no problems. You might assume that since discus and angels are in the same family that this would work for discus. It will not. All IMO; Don T.

[Jhhnn]

I'm certainly no expert but one thing I would suggest to anyone wanting to keep discus is to plan ahead for more WC than you think you need.

Absolutely. Invest in the equipment required to make WC as painless as possible. Do it before the fish arrive.

Properly cared for, Discus will live for many years. If you amortize the cost of water changing equipment and water over the life of the fish, it's really pretty cheap to do it well. Some people, like Avionics, take it in a different direction, simply because they pay a lot for water. The investment in the equipment and electricity to do so is every bit as large as that for changing water, actually moreso for most of us.

Nobody said it would be cheap. we pay one way or another- for water and the means to change it, for more advanced filtration and lighting systems, of for more fish to replace the ones that died...

Just one old guy's POV...