Obesity dangerous?

[Daniella]

Some of my fish are getting fat, I mean obese, especialy the adults. Is it dangerous for the fish? I am going in vacations for 8 days and will not feed them for about 7 days so I thought it would be good if they has a little extra fat but how much is safe? I feed them 3 times a day, beefheart with frozen bloodworms 2 times and one time live white worms. I have young 3" discus with the adults and those are not too fat, just right, why I feed 3 times a day, but I cannot stop the adults from feasting as well.

And what can happen if the fish are too fat?

Also when I resume feeding, I am guessing it will be slowly but how much slow is good? is it better just one small meal the first day or many very small meal for few days?

Thanks.

[ShinShin]

Good question. Yes, discus can become fat, and health problems, including death, can occur. I am reading about all this "power feeding" people are doing who have no idea about fish nutrition, and am just waiting for the comments about dead fish to be posted. Wattley feeds his adults once daily, skipping one day a week. Yeng addresses this issue in his 2nd book, too, about overfeeding young discus and some of the ramifications from it.
Mat

[Peachtree Discus]

even i wonder about the long term effects of overfeeding fish. especially with these huge discus that will not breed. logically, anything that eats too much without adequate exercise should have health issues. i have not seen too much discussion on discus fat content.

are you sure the fish are not bloated? are they overeating to the point that their bellies swell? the adults can easily bully the smaller discus and horde the food. you may want to put a separator so u can feed the smaller vs adults differently.

once you return from vacation i don't see any reason to start slow with feedings. i would just go back to your regular feeding routine. It will also be a great time to introduce new foods....maybe flakes. on a separate note,

[William Palumbo]

I think as a whole, we really know nothing about the dietary requirements of Discus. We just know what "works" for us. We assume if they grow large and fast...and eventually breed...we fed them correctly. And I guess in the long run, that's all that matters. I am not sure if I can honestly say I ever saw a "fat" fish. I've seen HUGE ones, but that does not eaqual fat. I am not saying tho, that they don't exisist, or that they can't get fat. Do they have "love handles" or double "chins"? Where does the fat accumilate? I would think that if a fish is overfed, it will just produce more waste, expelling what it does not need. Can someone post a pic of a "fat" Discus?. I am curious what it should look like...Bill

[rbarn]

Yeah, I dont think fish store extra energy as fat reserves the
way mammals do.

I dont think a fish can get "fat" the way we think of in being "overweight"

Fish just keep growing and growing and growing.

[Peachtree Discus]

sometime back, i read that fish store fat in their liver. i was also told that you can find the fat on a flounder along the top (below the dorsal fin) and bottom (behind the pelvic fins). i dont' know if it's true and it was not a scientific discussion...it was at a buffet

[Chad Hughes]

OK, I'll throw my $.02 observations and opinions at this....

I believe that the power feeding methods are typically used by high volume breeders to get fry up to size for sale. This makes sense for the short amount of time that the fish will be in the breeders posession. Once they have achieve a saleable size, feeding certainly tapers off. Most breeders that I know feed 3" + discus only three times a day vice continuing with the massive 5 + daily feedings.

I take the same approach. When I have young fish that are developing, I like to feed about 5 times a day. I just don't have the means to do more. I have a job and responsibilities. LOL! I do ensure that the young ones get enough feedings to keep their bellies pleasantly plump throughout the day. After the first year I throttle back to 3 daily feedings plus skip a day here and there. I believe that it improves appetite doing things this way. The fish are always ready to eat, not fat and lazy.

I can't say that I have any fat discus, but I do have some large, very filled out discus!

Best wishes!

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Yeah, I dont think fish store extra energy as fat reserves the
way mammals do.

I dont think a fish can get "fat" the way we think of in being "overweight"

Fish just keep growing and growing and growing.

Fish can most definetly get fat they way any other animal can. Easiest way to see a fat discus is to look at it's double chin (in asia, you have to pay extra for that LOL). They will store fat in the liver, kidneys, body cavity (visceral fat), and head. The fat storage you see is due to being fed too "hot" of a diet. Fish can only use so much protein/fat...anything extra is excreted (protein) or stored (fat) much like us. This also places additional strain on the fishes body dealing with the excess nutrients.

I cringe everytime I see someone say they are power feeding their fish using an ultra high protein food, feeding 8x per day, etc....it's just not necessary. What will result will be fat fish, and/or fish with shortened life spans. Fish can only use so much protein and so much fat (again, just like us), anything else is a waste of money. Not only does powerfeeding have potential to create fat fish, but it will destroy the water quality as well. Any protein above what they need is excreted into the water directly as ammonia. So if you are feeding a super high protein food and dont keep up with water changes, you have the possibility to create an ammonia spike in the tank which could kill your fish.

Ideally, feeding 3x a day is best and spread the feedings out as far as possible. And when you feed, feed them to satiation....meaning till they are full.

Ok, thats my rant of the week.

-Ryan

[Scribbles]

I've never seen a fat discus. I would assume it to be unhealthy. Overfeeding would also destroy water quality from uneaten food and excess waste produced by the fish from consuming more nutrients than it needs. People always talk about the number of meals that they feed their discus. I think that it is more important to note the ammount fed. I feed my current juvies 10 times daily on average. However, I feed such small ammounts that the food is eaten in about 30 seconds. I assume that just like other animals that only a small ammount of nutrients can be absorbed at a time which is why I feed small frequent meals versus 3 feasts.

Chris

[mikel]

I also think it is important to distinguish feeding "frequently", and "overfeeding" to the point of pollution and detriment. I prefer to eat small meals, but often, like most doctors would advise. Likewise, the logic makes sense for discus as they also practice continuous foraging for small amount of food in the wild. I also agree that variety, and not going overboard with high protein food would also be better. In that spirit, Al's and Eddie's mix also have vegetable matter mixed into them, like peas and boiled spinach and spirulina flakes. I really like the Omega One super veggie flakes that I use to supplement Al's beef heart mix....and I give my fish equal helping of the two daily. mike

[Daniella]

The fish are not bloated. They do get a very plump belly after eating but that go away fast. They are just plump or chobby all over.

The adults don't bully the small ones to the point they cannot eat because I have a bare bottom tank and I put food in different places so everybody get their share. But since I have to feed 3 times a day for the young discus, the adults are getting fat as they eat at the same time.

I do not care for breeding at all, I just want healthy fish.

I tried flakes but only some of my fish eat them. I use Ocean discus flakes. I was thinking of using that with a distributor when away but I am too afraid that it would fool the water.

even i wonder about the long term effects of overfeeding fish. especially with these huge discus that will not breed. logically, anything that eats too much without adequate exercise should have health issues. i have not seen too much discussion on discus fat content.

are you sure the fish are not bloated? are they overeating to the point that their bellies swell? the adults can easily bully the smaller discus and horde the food. you may want to put a separator so u can feed the smaller vs adults differently.

once you return from vacation i don't see any reason to start slow with feedings. i would just go back to your regular feeding routine. It will also be a great time to introduce new foods....maybe flakes. on a separate note,

[Daniella]

There is not much pollution because I syphon before and after feeding. I remove all poop before feeding and after I remove any food left over.

I never let the food longer than 30 to 45 minutes. Each time I test there is no ammonia nor nitrites.

It's just that 2 of my adults are quite thick and I am not sure what is considered obese but they are probably on the edge of it.

I also think it is important to distinguish feeding "frequently", and "overfeeding" to the point of pollution and detriment. I prefer to eat small meals, but often, like most doctors would advise. Likewise, the logic makes sense for discus as they also practice continuous foraging for small amount of food in the wild. I also agree that variety, and not going overboard with high protein food would also be better. In that spirit, Al's and Eddie's mix also have vegetable matter mixed into them, like peas and boiled spinach and spirulina flakes. I really like the Omega One super veggie flakes that I use to supplement Al's beef heart mix....and I give my fish equal helping of the two daily. mike

[Eddie]

The fish are not bloated. They do get a very plump belly after eating but that go away fast. They are just plump or chobby all over.

The adults don't bully the small ones to the point they cannot eat because I have a bare bottom tank and I put food in different places so everybody get their share. But since I have to feed 3 times a day for the young discus, the adults are getting fat as they eat at the same time.

I do not care for breeding at all, I just want healthy fish.

I tried flakes but only some of my fish eat them. I use Ocean discus flakes. I was thinking of using that with a distributor when away but I am too afraid that it would fool the water.

Yeah...I'd have to see the pictures of the fat discus. Not that I don't believe you Daniella, just want to see how you are viewing the fish as fat.


As far as the feeding, and protein intake of fish...I'll stay out of that one. Aren't there a hundred ways to skin a cat.

Great comments by everyone though.

Eddie

[Daniella]

that's what I do, I feed them 3 times a day, but getting them full is a challenge I think they have no bottom.

Ideally, feeding 3x a day is best and spread the feedings out as far as possible. And when you feed, feed them to satiation....meaning till they are full.

Ok, thats my rant of the week.

-Ryan

[Daniella]

I will have to take a pic. Not sure how this would be visible in pics though. Here is a pic of one of the fish about 5 weeks ago. You can see it's not skinny but now it,s just thicker more plump.

http://i.pbase.com/o2/84/9684/1/1128...W._MG_1264.jpg

And my eruption is also getting there. I can see a dip underneat the pectoral fins, like in the center of the body, as if there is more fat all over except in that area, so that's wierd.

Here is the eruption also taken 5 weeks ago, also thicker now:

http://k43.pbase.com/o2/84/9684/1/11...D._MG_1286.jpg

I am not sure what is considered obese for a discus, so why I am asking.

Yeah...I'd have to see the pictures of the fat discus. Not that I don't believe you Daniella, just want to see how you are viewing the fish as fat.


As far as the feeding, and protein intake of fish...I'll stay out of that one. Aren't there a hundred ways to skin a cat.

Great comments by everyone though.

Eddie