Too Fast and Furious

[Eddie]

Well all,

As most of you might have read, I had a major outbreak in my tanks about a month ago, I used F&MG on a tank and it all went downhill fast. I ended up using Erythromycin as an antibiotic and nothing improved. I then went with Furanase and fed the fish Kanamycin flake food. All the fish recovered and were better than ever. Well, I recently returned from a 2 week stint and all my tanks were fantastic! I decided to pull a leopard from another existing tank that was in another room and add it to this tank that had the issues, assuming it would be all good. See post, fish could not be any better.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...416#post549416

After a few days literally, I noticed that one of the tank mates had some white nodules near the gills and one BD was acting off.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=72185

I decided to do a good tank cleaning, my daily 100% wc and I turned out the lights. I added air to the tank and I keep my tanks at 82F so no changes there. I dosed my tank with F&MG at recommended dose. All the fish were fine, no signs of stress or negative reaction, eating well and everything. So I went to sleep with no worries and I awoke to MAJOR outbreak that mirrored what I dealt with a month ago. All the fish had clamped fins, excess slime, severe cloudy eye, white specks and they were all completely black. I hit them with another 100% water change and redosed yesterday. All the fish, floating lifeless at the tops and bottoms. I couldn't do anything else and had to go into work. The wife called me and said they probably were not gonna make it. When I got home last night, all the fish were laying on their sides or floating, still breathing. I removed all the F&MG, did a twice over 100% water change. I did not have any antibiotics, accept a product I picked up from Andrew Soh, called Fucin. This product is well described in his new book. I figured is was all I had and there was nothing to lose. I added more air to the tank, 2tbsp of salt per 10 gallons and kept the lights off. I monitored the fish all night, until none were left laying on their sides. This morning the fish are in the same condition but all alive. I am hoping they pull through this killer fast infection but I accepted to lose them if it happens. I have attached pictures for you to see how the fish went from fantastic to just about dead overnight. First picture is the day before the fish went downhill. All the other pictures were from last night and this morning. This is just an example of how even the most seemingly disease free tanks/fish can have you fooled. This one definitely took me by swift surprise.















Even extreme quarantine in my own home was not good enough. No fish are new and there have been no new additions for months. Where did it come from? Nobody will know

Eddie

[poconogal]

OMG Eddie, I'm so sorry. Those pics are painful to look at. I have my fingers crossed for them.

[Eddie]

OMG Eddie, I'm so sorry. Those pics are painful to look at. I have my fingers crossed for them.

Thanks Connie, the fish laying on its side is my Heckel X too, that definitely sucks. Currently the fish are just hovered in the top corner. I am hoping for the best. Its insane because just below and immediately next to this tank, all my other tanks are doing fantastic.


Take care,

Eddie

[Andrew Soh]

Eddie,

I PM you this morning.

I believe is an overdose of F&MG. It can come in two ways.

a) Literally overdosing...which means putting more than their tolerant level which I think is not...for your case.

b) When you made water change before dosing, the discus in the tank could have inflicted injuries due to the cleaning and washing and this hasten the absorption of formalin. Even in low dose, when there are wounds, fishes cannot tolerate....and that low dose of formalin becomes lethal and the discus will react by secreting hugh amount of slime or mucos coat and finally die if water-change is not performed. This could be your case....and since they are still alive after a full night, your dose isn't lethal at all if there is no wounds.

Formalin is safe to use but cannot be administered after a water-change but rather treat first (Even if the water is very dirty) before water-change.

So what you need now is to prevent secondary infection which is bacterial infection. But bacterial infection wasn't the main cause nor the cause at all.

Try the method I suggested to you.....add salt @ 2ppm....200gms per 100 litres of water.

Get Acriflavine from your Japan's LFS and dose according to preventive dose and not therapeutic dose. If the water is dirty, change water as frequently as possible and redose both salt and acriflavine to strength. Acriflavin can help in suppressing bacterial growth.

Tie a huge cotton media on the airstone to filter off any loose slime....dislodged from the discus.

Let's see how this goes,

Andrew

[Eddie]

Thanks for chiming in Andrew, I am not sure if F&MG overdose is the cause. I have used F&MG at the same dose on the same tank and in the same exact manner. No issues like this ever developed, not a hint of negative reaction.

I will get some acriflavine from the LFS here in Japan. What about the Fucin? Do you suggest I finish this treatment as I have already started and I know it is best to finish and never stop early.

Eddie

[Disgirl]

I am so sorry to see and hear this Eddie. You and your fish are in my thoughts and I am hoping you can pull them back to health. If anyone can it will be you. Discus keeping sure can be tough at times...
Barb

[Andrew Soh]

Leave the fucin inside since you started it....it is o.k. You can even add acriflavine inside too because it is a chemical and has no reaction with fucin.

BUt if you prefer, after the four days of fucin, 100 percent water change and dose with acri after that.

REmember the salt...very important at this point.

Take care,
Andrew

[Eddie]

Leave the fucin inside since you started it....it is o.k. You can even add acriflavine inside too because it is a chemical and has no reaction with fucin.

BUt if you prefer, after the four days of fucin, 100 percent water change and dose with acri after that.

REmember the salt...very important at this point.

Take care,
Andrew

Got it, I'm on it! Will do and thanks a million times over for your help. I have the salt in and will finish out the 4 days of Fucin. Off to the LFS for Acriflavine.

Take care,

Eddie

[Jorge]

Hey Eddie,

I am very sorry! It's amazing how fast everything changed. I really hope they get better. After everything you did, they did not die, so there is hope...

[Andrew Soh]

Don't worry, Eddie....I assure they will recover in a few days.

Remember to add a cotton wool and tie around the air-stone to remove dislodged, free-flowing slime.....

Do not increase temperature. Leave it at 27C to 28C

Take care,
Andrew

[MostlyDiscus]

Sorry to see that Eddie. Andrews advice about getting out excess slime is to make sure you dont add to the infection pressure. Thus the cotton. Make sure to keep your water clean. I know many will shutter when I say this but 20 years ago we called this the plague. There were many ideas for treating this. If Andrew is helping you then take his advice to heart and follow it to the letter. Good luck my friend. Hang in there.

Ed

[Jhhnn]

Hope this all works out well, eddie- wishing you the best.

[Eddie]

Thanks All, so far so good. Everything to the letter, as Andrew instructed so we'll see. No more laying on their sides since last night so I am not as worried. Appreciate the concerns and definitely appreciate the help from Andrew.

I'll keep you all updated.

Eddie

[seanyuki]

Hi Eddie,

Hope those discus are getting better.....Try the Fucin as Andrew recommended and the PH 6.5 and under....

[Eddie]

Hi Eddie,

Hope those discus are getting better.....Try the Fucin as Andrew recommended and the PH 6.5 and under....

For sure, I have the fucin in tank, acriflavine, salt and the PH is at 6.5.

What a drag, these types of issues always happen when I am about to leave. Told you I had bad luck!

Good to hear you are alive and kicking TodayD had us worried.

Eddie