OMG!

[Daniella]

My wild heckel has just paired up with my eruption and they have spawned in my community tank. I came back from the store to find the heckel very aggressive and all the other fish at the far end of the tank and wow..eggs are on the driftwood!

Can hardly beleive it

there was not much courtship. the eruption shaking from time to time but it was mostly bowing to each other with fins erected. I just removed a pair because the disturbed the peace as they spawned and now I have 2 of my other adults at it again. geezzz...Is there a way to keep discus in a community tank without them pairing and spawning?

I really don't know what to do with them :-/

Anyone know what the babies would look like from a heckel and an eruption?

I still have to see if the eggs are fertile but they both making pass at it. They are not yet done and I can see both of them doing it.

[Eddie]

If you don't want to raise the fish, don't separate them. Spawning is a way of life for fish.....completely natural. Also, the fish are cichlids, very territorial, so I am not sure what you were expecting.

Eddie

[Daniella]

I was not expecting such aggression. Each time a couple pair up and spawn there is chaos in my aquarium.

I have seen many beautiful aquariums with many adult discus all getting along together perfectly and I was kind of expecting this I admit. Not the havoc that I get all the time.

That's what I would like. I tank full of adult discus all living together more or less in peace. 120 gallons = 12 to 14 discus max.

Honestly, I was not expecting this at all.

I am trying to take some photos of it. will put them on the web a bit later

If you don't want to raise the fish, don't separate them. Spawning is a way of life for fish.....completely natural. Also, the fish are cichlids, very territorial, so I am not sure what you were expecting.

Eddie

[Eddie]

I was not expecting such aggression. Each time a couple pair up and spawn there is chaos in my aquarium.

I have seen many beautiful aquariums with many adult discus all getting along together perfectly and I was kind of expecting this I admit. Not the havoc that I get all the time.

That's what I would like. I tank full of adult discus all living together more or less in peace. 120 gallons = 12 to 14 discus max.

Honestly, I was not expecting this at all.

I am trying to take some photos of it. will put them on the web a bit later

Yeah, I have never seen tanks of discus with no aggression at all. Maybe pictures but pictures don't really tell much of the story.

Eddie

[Daniella]

Oh I have seen it and I know a few people who have such tank.

Dunno what would happen if I would put the other couple back. there would be fighting no doubt. The more I wait and the more there will be problem I guess if I wish to return them to the main tank. I can isolate a couple causing trouble but I cannot do it for 2 couple. I only have 5 adults and now there is only one adult not at it (because he's alone).

Strangest thing is that right now my water quality is awfull. I have had ammonia at .25 to .50 for a week and now for 3 days nitritres were at around .25 to .50 because I had to cycle my tank again after desinfection for flukes.

I do 60 % water change each day but that still does not get the water free of all these poisons. That does not stop them from breeding.

And now as I write this my other couple in the 20 gallons are spawning as well. I am about to pull my hair out.

I was thinking of buying more adults. Either that or selling them and going with less aggressive fish, not sure.

I did a big consession by going bare bottom and throwing away all my plants, but I still don't have a founctional aquarium.

Yeah, I have never seen tanks of discus with no aggression at all. Maybe pictures but pictures don't really tell much of the story.

Eddie

[Eddie]

Ammonia is irrelevant when PH levels are neutral or below. The nitrite you may just be juggling with the water changes. Definitely keep doing your water changes and salt would be a good thing.

Guess you best move on to other fish because there is only fantasy in what you saw. Cichlids are temperamental and when it comes to breeding, there will only be havoc if there are other fish around.

Eddie

[lemondiscus]

I have to agree with Eddie... I have had Discus almost 2 years and they ARE NOT peaceful fish by ANY means! Ever since I have kept them I have seen bullying to almost no end.... Discus are like Angels to a degree... peaceful until they pair and then reake havok on everyone in the tank that comes near their site...

I had a pair (as you know AND an undesirable one) in my 125... they took over 80% of the tank putting the other 9 in a 5" x 19" area.... Thats the 2 I am playing with now...

Discus are cichlids... cichlids have their ways about them... you may not see the cichlid in them all the time, but IT DOES come out!!! They are NOT peaceful fish! Its a joke if you think they are.... Again like Eddie said, I thought when I first got into Discus that from the pictures they were calm, shoaling fish.... WRONG!

[April]

discus quite often will start spawning if a bit of ammonia present. my friend jason used to say ..if you want to jump start them laying..add a bit of ammonia. or..just fluctuations will get them going.
adult discus are always pushing and moving others out of their way if they want to spawn..no sense moving any out until you see if the eggs are fertile. they will keep the others away . unless you have a tank full of one sex..they will lay . even then..females will lay with each other..etc.
adult discus push and shove and have their place in the tank.
welll..let us know if they are fertile.

[Daniella]

Salt is already in the tank and the cycle is practicaly completed. I have used Superbac live. It took about 10 days to do but my Ph was around 7. I guess it would have taken a bit less if my Ph had been optimal.

I will talk to these people and see what they think. How they acheive balance in all this.

Ammonia is irrelevant when PH levels are neutral or below. The nitrite you may just be juggling with the water changes. Definitely keep doing your water changes and salt would be a good thing.

Guess you best move on to other fish because there is only fantasy in what you saw. Cichlids are temperamental and when it comes to breeding, there will only be havoc if there are other fish around.

Eddie

[Daniella]

Some pics, not the greatest pics though...

I can see the heckel was doing pass on the driftwood here:

http://www.pbase.com/zylen/image/116603556/original

http://www.pbase.com/zylen/image/116603697

and the eruption right after:

http://www.pbase.com/zylen/image/116603652/original

and now the eruption is fanning the eggs:

http://www.pbase.com/zylen/image/116603732

Anyone can tell me if the heckel is a male or a female? I think it's a female because of the behavior but not sure:

http://www.pbase.com/zylen/image/116603674/original

[Chad Hughes]

From your pictures there is no possible way to tell. If you had the opportunity to take photgraphs, that would have been the ideal time to sex the fish.... in the act. That being said, you still won't know if this is a pair or not until their fry go free swimming. This will confirm a true pair. Until then, you wait.....

[Eddie]

I will talk to these people and see what they think. How they acheive balance in all this.

Balance in what?

[Daniella]

balance, equilibrum, zen, something viable without chaos all the time.

They have many discus living together and each time I go there it's very peacefull and no discus fight.

As for the pair, I did watch it but both were doing the same move so hard to tell wich one was laying eggs and wich one was fertilizing the eggs.

I know the eruption was fighting with my other male (confirmed) to spawn with my female melon (confirmed) so I am guessing the eruption is a male as she did spaw with that eruption once after he won a fight and my checkerboard was temporary in exile. So that would make the heckel a female because I have eggs. This morning only one egg is white and the eruption is guarding them like an hawk.

Also the heckel was previously only fighting with my female melon. so from the behavior I concluded that the heckel is a female and the eruption a male.

Balance in what?

[Eddie]

Zen.....I am trying to think if there is a group of fish where there is total zen. I was thinking puffers but I am sure I've seen them be aggressive too.

Eddie

[lemondiscus]

bThis morning only one egg is white and the eruption is guarding them like an hawk.

IME with ANGELS the male tends to guard and fan the eggs more than the female... however they do take turns but more often than not it was always the male that seemed to be a better parent...

Again that is my experience... My 2 discus that are spawning I noticed are exhibiting the exact same behavior with the male guarding/fanning the eggs more than the female.

They just laid eggs yesterday again and I felt privileged to watch them make their runs on the spawning site! It was about 45 minutes of entertainment for me (god I am a fish nerd!... lol )