1 Dead, 3 Sick; Rose Red Juvies...HELP!

[mlov1022]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

:1 turned dark, stopped eating a few weeks ago. Did extra w/c's and seemed to improve. Just this past weekend, 4 turned very dark, stopped eating. 1 died today, the other 3 are not too far behind.





2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

: turning very dark, not eating, flashing, darting, sitting on bottom in corners or surface in corners






3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

:N/A



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

:29gal, about 2.5 months old, 10- 2 1/2 " Rose Reds



5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

75%/day, running for 2.5 months, bare bottom, don't age water.



6 Parameters and water source;

- temp: 86

- ph: 7.2

- ammonia reading: 0ppm

- gh: 60

- kh: 120

- nitrite reading: 0

- nitrate reading: 0

- municipal water: Yes


7. Any new fish/plants added recently: NO

[roclement]

something in the water changed? what do you feed?

[Eddie]

Slowly lower the temp throughout the day to about 80F. Get your hands on some Anti-Fluke Life Bearer. Once the temp is at 80, dose the tank as directed on the bottle, 1 drop per gallon. You need to keep the lights off as light has a direct effect on Trichlorfon. Keep good air in the tank.

Eddie

[doc3toes]

you using prime or something in the water? what are you feeding? can ou get some white worm or something?

[Eddie]

My take on it, if your fish have been doing fine for several months and then they started showing symptoms as you described, that would lead me to flukes or external protozoa. The most effective chemical for fluke treatment is Trichlorfon IMO.

http://www.aq-products.com/APpro/antifluke.htm

Now the fish are definitely being affected by an external irritant, and water doesn't make sense unless you recently changed water conditioners or there are chlorine/chloramines or heavy metals in the water.

Eddie

[brewmaster15]

Marc,
Can you post some photos please....

Eddie,
unless these are tiny fry, its unlikely that its flukes... the symptoms are not what I would attribute to flukes....however, I think you may be right on it possibly a parasite.. maybe a protozoan. Photos here might help.

Marc,
Are the fish shedding any excess slime? are the eyes or fins cloudy or opaque?.

I would also call your water supplier if you have municipal water.. Ask them if they have been working on the pipes in your area, flushed the lines or have changed anything.. That can also cause what you are seeing,IMO.
HTH,
al

[Eddie]

Marc,
Can you post some photos please....

Eddie,
unless these are tiny fry, its unlikely that its flukes... the symptoms are not what I would attribute to flukes....however, I think you may be right on it possibly a parasite.. maybe a protozoan. Photos here might help.

Marc,
Are the fish shedding any excess slime? are the eyes or fins cloudy or opaque?.

I would also call your water supplier if you have municipal water.. Ask them if they have been working on the pipes in your area, flushed the lines or have changed anything.. That can also cause what you are seeing,IMO.
HTH,
al

Sounds good Al, hopefully its something simple that can be fixed, relating to water.

Eddie

[mlov1022]

something in the water changed? what do you feed?

I don't believe it's water. My 150gal has no problems. I feed various flakes, bits, frozen brine shrimp & Eddie's seafood mix.

you using prime or something in the water? what are you feeding? can ou get some white worm or something?

I Always use prime w/every w/c.

Marc,
Can you post some photos please....

Eddie,
unless these are tiny fry, its unlikely that its flukes... the symptoms are not what I would attribute to flukes....however, I think you may be right on it possibly a parasite.. maybe a protozoan. Photos here might help.

Marc,
Are the fish shedding any excess slime? are the eyes or fins cloudy or opaque?.

I would also call your water supplier if you have municipal water.. Ask them if they have been working on the pipes in your area, flushed the lines or have changed anything.. That can also cause what you are seeing,IMO.
HTH,
al

Al, I'll get some pictures this morning. No excess slime, the bodies are clean just dark. eyes are dark too.

Last night I dosed the tank w/ http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...56&pcatid=4756 and they seem to be swimming around this morning, but still dark.

[DiscusFreakaZoid]

what causes these flukes or parasites to just appear. what preventatives can you take? just keep the water clean?

[Eddie]

what causes these flukes or parasites to just appear. what preventatives can you take? just keep the water clean?

I wouldn't say they just appear. There are millions of organisms in an enclosed aquatic environment. A healthy fish can live with and tolerate many of these organisms. The problem arises when the either the environment allows parasite proliferation or the fish becomes stressed. And generally, these go hand in hand. Removing that stress (parasites/bacteria) allows the fish to fend for itself.

In the case above, I say parasites just grew to extreme numbers until the fish broke down. But.......who am I.

Eddie

[mlov1022]

what causes these flukes or parasites to just appear. what preventatives can you take? just keep the water clean?

I couldn't keep that tank any cleaner.....I change the water 75%/day and sometimes 2x @ 50%. I wipe the glass everyday as well. Every other day I rinse the pre-filter w/tank water at the sink when draining.

One thing I think might have contributed to the outbreak might be that I would leave my safety siphon in the water for a day or 2 so w/c's were easier, just plug in and drain/re-fill. Leaving water sitting in the hose for a period of time.

[DiscusOnly]

Marc,

The one thing that comes to mind is a possible cross contamination. I am sure you use the same safety siphon to empty your 150 and 30 gallon.

I don't use separate equipments for each of my tanks but I am cautious with new fish. You had these for weeks now and it's strange to have the outbreak.

[roclement]

Vlam has a great point, what other fish do you have in your other tanks?

I am in Edison, NJ and have to say that recently the water quality has been crap! I use RO/DI water in my tanks and my filters in the unit turned brown quickly, the water company just re-did some piping in the area and flushed the lines so junk in the water everywhere!

If cross contamination is not an issue, I would take a good look into the water supply!

I have a lot of rose reds from Bobtools and they are all healthy, let me know if you want some when you find what the issue was, I will gladly give you some, got more then I cn handle right now! Good Luck!

Rodrigo

[BOBT00LS]

Hey Marc. Sorry to hear whats going on with your Rose Reds. I am certainly no expert when it comes to sickness in discus since my fish just dont get sick so I dont have to treat and learn from experience. My initial red flag is not aging your water. When I started with discus I use to use water straight from the tap and add prime. After doing a water change one night, I woke to find the entire tank of at least 12 adults floating dead. Since then I age, heat and airate my water for a minimum of 24 hours before water changes. You never know what the water company is putting in the water and Im not about to find out the hard way again. You have had these Reds for 58 days now and they were healthy, growing, and eating like pigs as your other posts on Simply suggest. The main focus now is to get them better. As I mentioned I am not educated when it comes to sickness so I would recomend following AL's instruction since I see he has already posted. If anyone can help its Al. Im guessing stress which opens them up to alot of possibilities which they might normally fight off.


Bob

[mlov1022]

Update: They seem to be a little more active now, still dark though. Around 4pm it will be 24hrs since I dosed the tank. When should I re-dose? Should I do a w/c?