Flukes and Fry

[Mr Wild]

I have wrigglers at present and was wondering at what point can I treat for flukes so that I do not get a big die back that I have read about?

Obviously I thought it too early to do now but wondered when it might be safe?

[Eddie]

Hey Kath, no expert here but I'd wait and not treat until you have a reason. I know you probably dont want to hear it, but I'd wait and if you lose some to symptoms associated with flukes, then it may be necessary.

HTH

Eddie

[Mr Wild]

What type of symptoms would you expect on small fish? Like 2-3 weeks?

[Eddie]

What type of symptoms would you expect on small fish? Like 2-3 weeks?

Them dying, dropping like flies, zipping around the tank, spiraling around and laying on the tank floor. But this can also be attributed to poor water quality, high bio load. If you are on top of water changes and keeping everything clean and the fish are still dropping off, then I'd assume flukes.

As far as age, I use Carol's timeline. Once the wrigglers go free swimming, thats the date born.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=26679

HTH
Eddie

[Mr Wild]

Thanks Eddie

Yeah I use the same dateline as well. This is purely a theoretical question as mine have not gotten that old yet. Just wanted to be prepared and thought a pre emptive strike might have been handy when they neared the "death age".

[Eddie]

Thanks Eddie

Yeah I use the same dateline as well. This is purely a theoretical question as mine have not gotten that old yet. Just wanted to be prepared and thought a pre emptive strike might have been handy when they neared the "death age".

Best of luck Kath!

Eddie

[Dutch dude]

Hi there.

As some of you might know I lost an awful lot of fry. Until a couple of weeks ago I thought it had to do with my skills (new into breeding) and not feeding enough bbs. I discovered the reason for the death fry was something diferent and labeled as "4 weeks syndrome". At the age of 3 to 4 weeks fry are suscepteble to protozoa. The symptoms are start to go dark, breathe heavily and sometimes go to the surface or into a corner and die. I lost over 60 fry to this illness. The reason should be that baby discus of 3 to 4 weeks are not immune to the mainly protozoan. Some claim if the fry are still with the parents at that age their immune system would be better developed and the 4 week syndrome doesn't make so many victims. On the other hand it takes a lot of the parents and might be to stressfull or couse to much demage.

The 4 week syndrome can make a lot off victims and you even may lose the entire batch (I lost 90% of one brood and 30% of an other). The fish that don't die have developed immunity to the protozoan.

Next time I will treat the fry tank when the fry are 3 weeks of age. I read a dosage of 1cc of acriflavine per 50 litre of water should be enough. Keep in mind that acriflavine will kill bacteria in your filter system as well.

Sometimes gill flukes are also a reason for the high losses but often the gasping for air makes people think it is gill flukes but it also fits the 4 week syndrome.

I know I will try the acriflavine next time.

Ruurd

[Mr Wild]

Thanks Ruurd

I will keep that in mind and get some acriflavine to have on hand.

Many thanks to Eddie and Ruurd for your advice and thoughts.

[Eddie]

Thanks Ruurd

I will keep that in mind and get some acriflavine to have on hand.

Many thanks to Eddie and Ruurd for your advice and thoughts.

Anytime Kath, take care

Eddie

[mmorris]

I think die-offs at four weeks are most commonly a result of bacterial infection because the water isn't clean enough. I used to lose a few at four weeks - never a die off - in spite of two 80% wc's a day in the 29 gal with their parents. Now I move the fry into a 55 gal. at three weeks.

[Dutch dude]

Martha,....If it would be bacteria related the acriflavine also solves that problem. Some people lose entire batches to the 4 week syndrome and some non.

In my case I kept 70 fry in a 50 gallon, pump driven sponge filter and 90% water change every day. I lost abouth 60 of those fry. The other group were in the same conditions (not the same tank) and abouth 60 fry and I lost abouth 20 of them. I did had to cull quit some fry becouse of a size diference (set back possibly coused by the 4 week syndrome).

Your welcome Kath and I can only share my expiriences so far. keep in mind I'm new to breeding discus.

[mmorris]

Martha,....If it would be bacteria related the acriflavine also solves that problem. Some people lose entire batches to the 4 week syndrome and some non.

In my case I kept 70 fry in a 50 gallon, pump driven sponge filter and 90% water change every day. I lost abouth 60 of those fry. The other group were in the same conditions (not the same tank) and abouth 60 fry and I lost abouth 20 of them. I did had to cull quit some fry becouse of a size diference (set back possibly coused by the 4 week syndrome).

Your welcome Kath and I can only share my expiriences so far. keep in mind I'm new to breeding discus.

I suspect it's the inexperienced who lose batches, or large parts of batches, rather than the experienced but I could be wrong. The trick is figure out what needs to be done differently.

[taekwondodo]

Martha,....If it would be bacteria related the acriflavine also solves that problem. Some people lose entire batches to the 4 week syndrome and some non.

In my case I kept 70 fry in a 50 gallon, pump driven sponge filter and 90% water change every day. I lost abouth 60 of those fry. The other group were in the same conditions (not the same tank) and abouth 60 fry and I lost abouth 20 of them. I did had to cull quit some fry becouse of a size diference (set back possibly coused by the 4 week syndrome).

Your welcome Kath and I can only share my expiriences so far. keep in mind I'm new to breeding discus.

IME (and it's been a while - been "out" for almost 10 years (Having kids took over my fishroom space )) - It's the heavy water change that may be your problem. Test the water - If it's not overly high in NO3 (or NO2/NH3+), why are you changing it?

IME, Small discus are very sensitive to drastic changes in water conditions...

- Jeff

[mmorris]

IME (and it's been a while - been "out" for almost 10 years (Having kids took over my fishroom space )) - It's the heavy water change that may be your problem. Test the water - If it's not overly high in NO3 (or NO2/NH3+), why are you changing it?

IME, Small discus are very sensitive to drastic changes in water conditions...

- Jeff

You make a good point, Jeff. The water being added must be the same ph and temp as the water removed. That said, heavy wc's are, IMO, imperative. Nitrates are only one of the contaminates but it gets a lot of attention because it is the one we can measure.

[kaceyo]

Heavy wc's are only a problem if the make up water isn't adjusted to the same specs as the tank water. When raising fry artificially I change 100% of the water a number of times during the day. These guys are just a day old to start and they handle it fine. The more the better, along with wiping down tank and equipment and cleaning filters daily.

Kacey